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Old 21-05-2015, 16:27   #391
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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"Certainly" this case is not relevant. February in the N Atlantic is no place competent cruisers go. If you want to proscribe safety features for incompetent cruisers or desperate delivery crews, that's a wholly different topic with no rational solution.

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Old 21-05-2015, 16:37   #392
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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"Certainly" this case is not relevant. February in the N Atlantic is no place competent cruisers go. If you want to proscribe safety features for incompetent cruisers or desperate delivery crews, that's a wholly different topic with no rational solution.

Dave
I agree that one should not go there. I thought that case was relevant as an example scenario (quite challenging one) where the self righting possibilities of catamarans can be studied.
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Old 21-05-2015, 16:38   #393
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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I agree that one should not go there. I thought that case was relevant as an example scenario (quite challenging one) where the self righting possibilities of catamarans can be studied.
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Old 21-05-2015, 16:51   #394
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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I agree that one should not go there. I thought that case was relevant as an example scenario (quite challenging one) where the self righting possibilities of catamarans can be studied.
HUH? I can't even see a connection. You wish to cite a bad decision to proving a theory about a dream of a self righting cruising cat. Lets send them out into the north Atlantic to study it? I hope you sign on, it sure as **** won't be me.
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Old 21-05-2015, 17:04   #395
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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HUH? I can't even see a connection. You wish to cite a bad decision to proving a theory about a dream of a self righting cruising cat. Lets send them out into the north Atlantic to study it? I hope you sign on, it sure as **** won't be me.
Don't worry. I don't see any such connection either.
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Old 21-05-2015, 17:30   #396
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

opportunity for "cruiser" catamaran crash on order of likely hood.

1, racing. 2, novice use. 3, sudden squall. 4, gybe mistake. 5, running too fast(pitch pole). 6, big seas -

There are 4 things here that don't need high sea state that would kill a cat and not a mono. (Don't flak the mono reference like a machine gun please - just ignore the mono reference if it pisses u off)

Would people agree this list is correct?
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Old 21-05-2015, 17:38   #397
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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opportunity for "cruiser" catamaran crash on order of likely hood.

1, racing. 2, novice use. 3, sudden squall. 4, gybe mistake. 5, running too fast(pitch pole). 6, big seas -

There are 4 things here that don't need high sea state that would kill a cat and not a mono. (Don't flak the mono reference like a machine gun please - just ignore the mono reference if it pisses u off)

Would people agree this list is correct?
? What is you agenda?
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Old 21-05-2015, 17:42   #398
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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opportunity for "cruiser" catamaran crash on order of likely hood.

1, racing. 2, novice use. 3, sudden squall. 4, gybe mistake. 5, running too fast(pitch pole). 6, big seas -

There are 4 things here that don't need high sea state that would kill a cat and not a mono. (Don't flak the mono reference like a machine gun please - just ignore the mono reference if it pisses u off)

Would people agree this list is correct?
Sorry but you were the one who brough the mono into it (after going on a while ago about it's not cat vs mono on this thread). Not pissed off just correcting faulty logic so we can have a logical discussion.

Mono's can kill people in all 6 of your scenarios. So correct your mistake and then we can come back and discuss.
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Old 21-05-2015, 17:43   #399
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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? What is you agenda?
meeting, report, pub, pretend to work, home.

Just answer the question off Cadence.. There is no catch.
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Old 21-05-2015, 17:56   #400
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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meeting, report, pub, pretend to work, home.

Just answer the question off Cadence.. There is no catch.
The pub might explain it? It seems as though you have raised the ire of people with more knowledge than me.
To what point? The whole thing seems senseless.
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Old 21-05-2015, 18:04   #401
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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Originally Posted by paulanthony View Post
opportunity for "cruiser" catamaran crash on order of likely hood.

1, racing. 2, novice use. 3, sudden squall. 4, gybe mistake. 5, running too fast(pitch pole). 6, big seas -

There are 4 things here that don't need high sea state that would kill a cat and not a mono. (Don't flak the mono reference like a machine gun please - just ignore the mono reference if it pisses u off)

Would people agree this list is correct?
"People" might, but experienced passage makers/cruisers won't.

If you need six reasons, I'll propose the following six:

1. incompetent use
2. incompetent use
3. incompetent use
4. incompetent use
5. incompetent use
6. bad luck

I recommend you don't jump on "bad luck" as reason enough to neuter an otherwise good sailing vessel with expensive and debilitating add-ons to cover vanishingly small threats. A big part of cruising is the challenge of the sea, fully knowing it is unforgiving and accepting "danger" as the cost for proper preparation and acquired skill. As in many recreational choices, perfect safety is impossible and undesirable lest the thrill be trivialized.

Dave
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Old 21-05-2015, 18:12   #402
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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Originally Posted by 2Hulls View Post
"People" might, but experienced passage makers/cruisers won't.

If you need six reasons, I'll propose the following six:

1. incompetent use
2. incompetent use
3. incompetent use
4. incompetent use
5. incompetent use
6. bad luck

I recommend you don't jump on "bad luck" as reason enough to neuter an otherwise good sailing vessel with expensive and debilitating add-ons to cover vanishingly small threats. A big part of cruising is the challenge of the sea, fully knowing it is unforgiving and accepting "danger" as the cost for proper preparation and acquired skill. As in many recreational choices, perfect safety is impossible and undesirable lest the thrill be trivialized.

Dave
Having avoided this thread since the obvious answer to the question posed is "NO and why would you bother?" All the posts made me take a sneak peek in case I was missing something.

Im not.

Dave 2 hulls you are spot on in your replies. I dont know why what appear to be novice sailors are continuing to argue with you.
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Old 21-05-2015, 18:46   #403
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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Having avoided this thread since the obvious answer to the question posed is "NO and why would you bother?" All the posts made me take a sneak peek in case I was missing something.

Im not.

Dave 2 hulls you are spot on in your replies. I dont know why what appear to be novice sailors are continuing to argue with you.
I love it when people start to get their medals out.. "I dont know why what appear to be novice sailors(inverted implication of superiority) are continuing to argue with you" Cracks me up.

Modesty is truly a forgotten value.. Maybe that's a lesson you could learn from Dave who is gracious enough to engage without condescension.
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Old 21-05-2015, 19:14   #404
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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I love it when people start to get their medals out.. "I dont know why what appear to be novice sailors(inverted implication of superiority) are continuing to argue with you" Cracks me up.

Modesty is truly a forgotten value.. Maybe that's a lesson you could learn from Dave who is gracious enough to engage without condescension.
Hmm, after reading your drivel for many posts, I believe novice sailor is complement to you and offensive to novice sailors. You boast 40+(?) years around boats, but it's obvious you have never been outside the Mill Pond.
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Old 21-05-2015, 19:15   #405
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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I love it when people start to get their medals out.. "I dont know why what appear to be novice sailors(inverted implication of superiority) are continuing to argue with you" Cracks me up.

Modesty is truly a forgotten value.. Maybe that's a lesson you could learn from Dave who is gracious enough to engage without condescension.
No I see it very differently. I greatfully learnt early on that the most important thing in offshore sailing is to know what you dont know (with a nod to rumsfeld). From that starting point you can then begin to learn with humility from those that know more. Its not a pastime you can bluff your way through with a bit of bravado and she'll be right mate attitude.

Im still learning and happy to admit that i will be for decades yet and to share what i do know with those that dont have a chip on their shoulder.

Condescension? hardly - this thread has so many posts because there is one or 2 argumentative types on it that dont want to accept some wisdom from guys like Dave et al.

Im not gonna waste any more keyboard taps on it

argue on if you like...
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