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Old 20-05-2015, 15:01   #316
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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@mods

please move this thread into the joke section where it belonged from the start
You nailed it. I thought how nice it is to be 7 again. Some don't seem to think so? But it is only my opinion .
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Old 20-05-2015, 15:08   #317
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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You nailed it. I thought how nice it is to be 7 again. Some don't seem to think so? But it is only my opinion .
You really can't help yourself can you Cadence.. If you don't like what you see why are you on this thread.. You are so attached to your spoon. Amazing.
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Old 20-05-2015, 15:55   #318
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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You really can't help yourself can you Cadence.. If you don't like what you see why are you on this thread.. You are so attached to your spoon. Amazing.
I think I lost a response. I agreed with you earlier. But I would rather see more emphasis put the GM of designs rather that recovery after the fact. I'm sure that is what designers do.

It's simple, don't like it don't read it. I thought the reference to Acme was cute, by someone else. Don't attack me personally, it shows no class.
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Old 20-05-2015, 16:04   #319
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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I think I lost a response. I agreed with you earlier. But I would rather see more emphasis put the GM of designs rather that recovery after the fact. I'm sure that is what designers do.

It's simple, don't like it don't read it. I thought the reference to Acme was cute, by someone else. Don't attack me personally, it shows no class.
Then do me a favour and take over the helm for a while and choose a different tack with the thread if you want coz I have tennis elbow with all this back atcher stuff.

Go for it... The floor is all yours.
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Old 20-05-2015, 16:16   #320
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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Maybe you could move yourself to the joke section or if you have something serious to say then why not say it.
I have said enuf 'serious', See my posts above.

The only ones taking this thread seriously seem to be folks without offshore experience in cats. Yet you think you can invent something superclever to save us poor cat sailors from the imminent death by capsize
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Old 20-05-2015, 16:17   #321
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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Then do me a favour and take over the helm for a while and choose a different tack with the thread if you want coz I have tennis elbow with all this back atcher stuff.

Go for it... The floor is all yours.
Hell, I don't want the floor. There have been posters far more qualified than me. I think what got your draws in a bunch was something I agreed with. I think Acme was a cute post.
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Old 20-05-2015, 16:18   #322
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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I habe said enuf 'serious', See my posts above.

The only ones taking this thread seriously seem to be folks without offshore experience in cats. Yet you think you can invent something superclever to save us poor cat sailors from the imminent death by capsize
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Old 20-05-2015, 16:30   #323
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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Many people who do not buy cats chose not to because of the capsize issue, be the problem great or small.
At leat to me that is one of the key questions when considering what kind of a boat to use for ocean crossings. I'm sure also many others ask the same question from themselves.

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However, the current supply and demand dynamic favours the cat manufacturer and with respect to the bigger companies who have a lot of back orders there simply is no motivator to introduce what would be a fantastic USP to take more market share of the mono market while they are still able to pick low hanging fruit from the already converted. It makes no economic sense to do so.
Yes, it is quite possible that the business of many of those companies works fine, and they do not welcome this kind additional tasks at this moment.

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The smaller companies don't really have R&D budgets to develop safety tech to capture people who lean towards the mono market so they compete in the same space as the big cat makers and provide niche verticals.
Yes. But I note that lack of progress might also be a result of not having any great ideas that could make the leading companies more competitive. And I note that some of the companies that have been mentioned in this stream do search new innovative solutions.

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If the current supply/demand dynamic did suddenly flip then these big companies would start to develop ideas that could be used to entice the mono fan club who have a different set of priorities but at the moment it is case of why bother as their target market has already accepted the capsize compromise in favour of liveability and comfort.
Yes, but as you say, improvements in multihulls could lead to taking part of the monohull market, and that could mean big money.

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This then only leaves certification and classification bodies to force the manufacturer to adopt safety tech that is not driven into existence through normal market forces.
My favourite approach would be to first start by making different properties more visible to the users. For example coastal water racing boats need not be as stable as blue ocean cruising boats. Both have their users, so neither category can be banned, but it would make sense to have as clear classifications as possible (possibly mandatory), so that potential buyers will know what they will get and what they will not get. Also insurance companies have some interest in forcing their customers to have reasonably safe boats.
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Old 20-05-2015, 16:32   #324
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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Then do me a favour and take over the helm for a while and choose a different tack with the thread if you want coz I have tennis elbow with all this back atcher stuff.

Go for it... The floor is all yours.
Can't help but being crass. I didn't realize you had the helm. Is that that big round wheel or that stick back there.
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Old 20-05-2015, 16:37   #325
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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Doubt many builders would invest the money when a large part of the market would prefer goodies for the buck. It might have the connotation of an expected knock down?
Yes, exactly. If there were some guaranteed solutions, or if some other manufacturers would move ahead first, then others would be forced to follow. But minor improvements might just draw attention to the problems, and might scare customers away (profits would be lost irrespective of whether the reasons are rational or irrational).
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Old 20-05-2015, 16:39   #326
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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My favourite approach would be to first start by making different properties more visible to the users. For example coastal water racing boats need not be as stable as blue ocean cruising boats. Both have their users, so neither category can be banned, but it would make sense to have as clear classifications as possible (possibly mandatory), so that potential buyers will know what they will get and what they will not get. Also insurance companies have some interest in forcing their customers to have reasonably safe boats.
Congratulations! you have your marketing plot ready but no clue how the product could probably work.
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Old 20-05-2015, 16:40   #327
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

Pitchpoling was certainly an issue with some of the earliest cat designs particually when racing.

Where is no doubt leading designers such as Crowther and others utilised tank testing to address these issues and both issues have been foremost on all designers and NA's since for cruising catamarans.

Of cource the recent development of foiling cats for racing has again highilited the issue again.
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Old 20-05-2015, 16:49   #328
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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Congratulations! you have your marketing plot ready but no clue how the product could probably work.
That was a bit confusing. I thought the referenced text was a regulatory plot/plan with no reference to any products.
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Old 20-05-2015, 17:12   #329
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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Congratulations! you have your marketing plot ready but no clue how the product could probably work.
Me too
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Old 20-05-2015, 17:53   #330
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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I have said enuf 'serious', See my posts above.

The only ones taking this thread seriously seem to be folks without offshore experience in cats. Yet you think you can invent something superclever to save us poor cat sailors from the imminent death by capsize
I just love it when the war hero's come out...

A: I did not invent it. However, it is a clever design and has been used successfully and is currently being feasibility tested to see if it can be scaled up. I tweaked it with respect to an inertia trigger.

B: I have absolutely no interest in saving you from imminent death. I promise you that.

If you are able to critique in an objective way with out hidden agendas or veiled insult I will be glad to read your comments.

If it holds no interest for you then pass it by.

Thank you.
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