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Old 19-05-2015, 12:06   #226
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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2/ if you do I hope you made plans on how to access the EPIRB , grab bag and liferaft and stay attached to the upturned hull or inside the hull
best place for the life raft and the grab bag of safety gear is on the transom, and this is true to any boat

but your first plan should be to say with the boat, many a crew drowned after leaving the boat for the perceived safety of a life raft only to discover it was worse than terrible, and life rafts fail too.

Stay with the boat as long as it is afloat
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Old 19-05-2015, 12:26   #227
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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Murphy does not quantify! You did. Big difference! Changes the whole meaning! If that is pedantic to you, wow!
DotDun, sounds like you where getting a vocabulary lessen. What was the original question. Oh, I remember self righting cat. More importantly lets not pitchpole or broach. Reef, reef, reef. Or maybe not past a point.

I guess it has all become academic unless you are there. Damn that big ass wave you are sailing down to the trough on is exciting, almost as much as the one ahead, you hope won't put green water over your bow.
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Old 19-05-2015, 12:57   #228
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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Murphy does not quantify! You did. Big difference! Changes the whole meaning! If that is pedantic to you, wow!
Yep... Wow!
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Old 19-05-2015, 13:06   #229
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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DotDun, sounds like you where getting a vocabulary lessen. What was the original question. Oh, I remember self righting cat. More importantly lets not pitchpole or broach. Reef, reef, reef. Or maybe not past a point.

I guess it has all become academic unless you are there. Damn that big ass wave you are sailing down to the trough on is exciting, almost as much as the one ahead, you hope won't put green water over your bow.
Girl scouts closed today Cadence? Bored are we? You nearly made me laugh. Keep trying.
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Old 19-05-2015, 13:25   #230
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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Girl scouts closed today Cadence? Bored are we? You nearly made me laugh. Keep trying.
Sorry, I've been there. I somehow don't think you have if you can't see the humor and truth in that. I'll bet those 3' seas are awful not the 5 and 6M ones. So in summation, kiss mine.
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Old 19-05-2015, 13:45   #231
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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Sorry, I've been there. I somehow don't think you have if you can't see the humor and truth in that. I'll bet those 3' seas are awful not the 5 and 6M ones. So in summation, kiss mine.
Your current sheet stirring spoon must be wearing out. You use it a lot I notice. Will buy you a new one for xmas.
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Old 19-05-2015, 14:01   #232
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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Your current sheet stirring spoon must be wearing out. You use it a lot I notice. Will buy you a new one for xmas.
I'll PM you address. It appeared of ten dollar words seemed demeaning back on your previous post to Dot. And if you have never surfed down one double reefed you might not appreciate my post on green water over the bow. Damn it is nice when it comes up.The girl scout.
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Old 19-05-2015, 14:11   #233
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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I'll PM you address. It appeared of ten dollar words seemed demeaning back on your previous post to Dot. And if you have never surfed down one double reefed you might not appreciate my post on green water over the bow. Damn it is nice when it comes up.
I am sure Dot is able to fight his own battles. Demeaning words are often born of demeaning words. Peace also.
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Old 19-05-2015, 14:18   #234
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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I am sure Dot is able to fight his own battles. Demeaning words are often born of demeaning words. Peace also.
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Old 19-05-2015, 15:24   #235
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

a nearshore capsize does not require self righting. There should be help available in acceptable time, for both righting and lifting off the crew.

Offshore it can happen in moderate weather only if you get caught by a squall while sleeping. Simple operator error. Darwin's rules apply.

In heavy storm conditions it can happen but there is no way of self-righting.

Just think about the situation you will face.
most equipment will be washed out or damaged. No electricity. Diesel everywhere, maybe also acid and fumes from the batteries.
The crew is tired from the last few hours or days in the storm. They are bruised or someone may be severely injured, missing or dead. It will be days of survival mode in a liferaft or dinghy before you can even think about righting the boat. After these days the condition of boat and equipment will be even worse. Whatever clever mechanism is implemented is almost certain to fail.

If you succeed the boat is full of water and therefore with almost no stability. A small push from a wave and she will capsize again before you have a chance to pump out. All batteries are dead, so this takes time.
If you finish manually pumping out tons of water. you would have a barely floating wreck with dead engines, likely torn sails and twisted running rigging. Or maybe even no mast. You could jury rig something but that won't bring you back home from high latitudes.



Your only hope is capsize prevention. Look into things like the jordan series drogue.
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Old 19-05-2015, 15:42   #236
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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a nearshore capsize does not require self righting. There should be help available in acceptable time, for both righting and lifting off the crew.

Offshore it can happen in moderate weather only if you get caught by a squall while sleeping. Simple operator error. Darwin's rules apply.

In heavy storm conditions it can happen but there is no way of self-righting.

Just think about the situation you will face.
most equipment will be washed out or damaged. No electricity. Diesel everywhere, maybe also acid and fumes from the batteries.
The crew is tired from the last few hours or days in the storm. They are bruised or someone may be severely injured, missing or dead. It will be days of survival mode in a liferaft or dinghy before you can even think about righting the boat. After these days the condition of boat and equipment will be even worse. Whatever clever mechanism is implemented is almost certain to fail.

If you succeed the boat is full of water and therefore with almost no stability. A small push from a wave and she will capsize again before you have a chance to pump out. All batteries are dead, so this takes time.
If you finish manually pumping out tons of water. you would have a barely floating wreck with dead engines, likely torn sails and twisted running rigging. Or maybe even no mast. You could jury rig something but that won't bring you back home from high latitudes.



Your only hope is capsize prevention. Look into things like the jordan series drogue.
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Old 19-05-2015, 15:44   #237
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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In heavy storm conditions it can happen but there is no way of self-righting.

Just think about the situation you will face.
most equipment will be washed out or damaged.
Did you rule out the Iroquois style float at the top of the mast? If it works otherwise, most of your equipment might still be dry, and the boat might recover within a minute (if you are lucky) with the help of waves and wind.
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Old 19-05-2015, 15:46   #238
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Re: Righting a Catamaran

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A small float or hydrostatically inflatable bag at the top of the mast should prevent the cat turning completely turtle.
Can you give your estimate on if this technique could be applied to large catamarans too.
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Old 19-05-2015, 16:07   #239
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Re: Righting a Catamaran

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Can you give your estimate on if this technique could be applied to large catamarans too.
Did you see this Juho? You may like it. I think it can get back up. Harryproa Cruiser 60 | Probably equivalent to a 40 foot cat if you dismiss the overhangs but if it will do what it says on the tin it will be quite impressive.
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Old 19-05-2015, 16:09   #240
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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Did you rule out the Iroquois style float at the top of the mast? If it works otherwise, most of your equipment might still be dry, and the boat might recover within a minute (if you are lucky) with the help of waves and wind.
A fixed float needs to be huge for a large cruising cat. The weight and windage will increase the risk of capsize.
A selfinflating device needs to inflate very fast. More like an airbag than like a PFD. plus it needs to be very tough to survive rubbing against shrouds, masthead, lights, etc

I can't calculate this but I am sure it will fail for a pitchpole. The forces will be violent and the waves will add to this. Maybe it could work for a flip over the side but i don't think so.

A reliable device would need significant development and testing effort. Way more than any manufacturer will ever spend on this. Especially since there is no market for such a device. The risk is too low for > 90% of all cat owners
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