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Old 18-05-2015, 12:23   #181
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

Damn, more windmills.
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Old 18-05-2015, 12:25   #182
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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Why would you let yourself become abeam to a breaking wave large enough to capsize your boat with sails up, be it cat, mono, big or small?
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Old 18-05-2015, 12:58   #183
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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Then why do you start the thread by stating as "fact" that catamarans are more dangerous than monohulls without factual data to support it? If it wasn't your point to argue cat vs mono, why did you bring it up and repeatedly argue when people pointed out the flaws in your logic? I suggest in future threads, leave extraneous issues out if you don't want people to correct you on them.

As has been said a number of times by various people, you aren't going to self right a large cruising cat by yourself on the open ocean, particularly in the kind of storm conditions that could flip a large cruising boat just the same as you aren't going to raise a mono from the bottom in storm conditions by yourself.
If you read the thread properly you would see that I amended it very early on so you cat lovers would stop throwing your toys out the pram. I don't think I used the word fact anywhere.

However, if you think it is unreasonable to prefer to be in a mono than a cat on the edge of things when a capsize for a cat = dead, upside down in the water and a capsize for a mono = some hope left then please continue to do so.

There are zero flaws in my logic and I am not going to agree with you just to make you feel better about the fact you bought a cat or want to buy one.

I will convey my sentiment along with this guys similar opinion.

"I have been sailing for over 40 years, and have owned several large cruising mono-hulls...including a Hans Christian 38'. A full-keel, heavy displacement boat. I also helped my dad built a 36' Piver Lodestar Trimaran. Having studied offshore sailing, and experiencing it firsthand, I can tell you without hesitation that the boat you choose should depend on the waters you plan to sail.

In my opinion, multi-hulls are ideal for protected waters such as the Virgin Islands, the Bahamas, and similar. But, for blue water, transoceanic voyaging I would only trust my life to a heavy displacement boat.

Multi-hulls are fast, but they are light and in the huge seas that one may encounter offshore become dangerous. If wind gets under the decks then capsizing or worse, turtleing can be fatal. "


This is kinda why I am interested in more safety tech that you seem not interested in. I keep hearing this stuff about comfort but in a cat you have to watch things like a hawk. Not to long ago we saw a Gun boat abandoned. If so comfortable why abandon and not wait for conventional recovery. Why did they need a helicopter.

I do not need to be convinced of some of the merits of cats but they are not good at everything and those things that they are not good at I am trying to address here but you seem to see any criticism of cats as being anti multi-hull. I am sorry but I am not willing to swallow your king James bible just because you have already subscribed to it.
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Old 18-05-2015, 13:17   #184
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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see answer #180
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Old 18-05-2015, 13:35   #185
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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Since we've already determined that monohulls have a better chance of sinking than a catamaran flipping, shouldn't the builders of monohulls be designing some type of flotation so their designs don't sink?


That could be why so many sailboats have a "big as the boat can carry" inflated RIB strapped down on the deck.

_____________

Seriously, I think convincing one side or the other to switch is unlikely, but can be amusing.

It seems this is one of those circumstances where people will choose something they like (or more likely, can afford) and then live with all its shortcomings, regardless of whether a different choice would not have the same issues/shortcomings.

By the way, I like both cats and monos. I would happily cruise in either if it were properly designed, rigged, and outfitted for where I want to sail and in very good condition.
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Old 18-05-2015, 14:08   #186
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

"I do not know a great deal about catamarans except that they make me a little nervous.

I have read the pro catamaran argument that says a cat will not sink if capsized which is all well and good but the probability of a catamaran capsizing far outweighs that of a mono sinking.

I wondered if there is any technology that has dealt with and solved the problem of righting a catamaran hull unaided by external assistance while at sea."


Then follows this up with accusation of not doing your homework (read: you do not know what you are talking about)

If you do your homework properly you will see that I am right. Get the values for all the mono's in the world v's cats. Then narrow down the cruising ranges to include places common to cats and mono's and then determine the number of losses via sinking compared to cats flipping. Then extrapolate the numbers of cats to that of mono's, determine like for like probability then come back and say sorry. - Or just answer the question as I asked and leave the biting for kids, lesser animals and insects.

And finally on post #156
"Well, now you have started to enter into reasoned dialogue(thank you) I will start to listen."

The Reader's Digest version of this thread, is the OP posted something sure to start the debate (AGAIN) on multi v monom, then followed it what calling the people replying... well lets just say, uninformed.
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Old 18-05-2015, 14:35   #187
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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Coz some times they sneak up on you from other directions and it only takes one and if you make a mistake you kinda up the creak without the paddle with no second chances even a small one. Hence the title of the thread.
If you feel prone to making such a mistake, please stay on land.
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Old 18-05-2015, 14:58   #188
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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If you feel prone to making such a mistake, please stay on land.
DotDun, a little crass but true.
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Old 18-05-2015, 15:08   #189
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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If you feel prone to making such a mistake, please stay on land.
So Catamarans are mistake sensitive then? Need to be highly alert then. Oh I see. Gotcha - It is starting to make sense now and there was I starting to believe they were such cosy easy going and forgiving places.
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Old 18-05-2015, 15:17   #190
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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DotDun, a little crass but true.
It is true for those who believe they are perfect and think they are unable to make mistakes I guess. - a little blunt but also true.
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Old 18-05-2015, 15:27   #191
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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So Catamarans are mistake sensitive then? Need to be highly alert then. Oh I see. Gotcha - It is starting to make sense now and there was I starting to believe they were such cosy easy going and forgiving places.
Did you start this thread simply to give you an outlet for your stunning witticisms?

Say Hi to Catty for me. I see you guys live close by.
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Old 18-05-2015, 15:38   #192
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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Give or take. Wana go touring north Atlantic in a sub 40 foot cat? Be my guest but I would not do it.
Thanks for your permission, appreciate. Your need and desire to be argumentative is amazing. Your ability to say - this thread is going south only because cat owners are sensitive is breathtaking. Your demonstrated lack on knowledge is not only awe inspiring, its dangerous as some poor misguided souls may think you know what you talk about.

You pose a trojan horse question as a means to have a fight. Social research suggests you are either a 16 year old geek, or a someone who has never sailed out of sight on a dark night.

BUT to answer your original question, the answer is no. The reason the answer is no is that it is a stupid stupid stupid question. Capsize is a risk that is better prevented by active safety measures than recovered from. Capsize in a "cruising size" is very very very rare. So there you go - there is your answer, or do you really want to have an argument, in which case, fine, I am happy to oblige, but I would need to know if you have any sailing experience at all and on what - its hard to describe reality to people who have never experienced it. It needs a different communication strategy.
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Old 18-05-2015, 16:00   #193
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

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Did you start this thread simply to give you an outlet for your stunning witticisms?

Say Hi to Catty for me. I see you guys live close by.
Sorry.. Say again please. I Have no idea what you are talking about. Is it something to do with the thread title? If it is I can't discern it.
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Old 18-05-2015, 16:04   #194
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

A catamaran which is going fast enough and which runs into the back of a big enough wave will pitch pole. I know, I have done this quite a few times and I am getting to be quite an expert doing it. This is due to the centre of gravity being higher than the centre of resistance of the bows dug into the wave in front. You cannot pitch pole a mono hulled yacht with a keel that way as the centre of gravity is too low (but you can do a spectacular broach instead).

A cruising cat has nice big bows to dig into waves. It also has a fair amoutn of weight above the centre of effort of the bows when they dug in. As a rule you generally try to avoid going too fast.

The video some one posted earlier of the cat coming in over a bar. A longer cataraman than that my well have pitch poled. As it was it looked to be uncomfortably close to the limit as to whether he would pitchpole or get rolled.
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Old 18-05-2015, 16:27   #195
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Re: Is there a catamaran of cruising size that can self right unaided?

...and the final word just might be that it can get so bad out there that just about anything meant to float can be capsized, and it doesn't matter how many hulls it has.
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