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Old 02-07-2012, 19:29   #16
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Re: Is My Lagoon 380 Catamaran Overweight??

If you truly dropped 6 inches in the water, that's a lot. I looked up the hull dimensions and did a real rough calculation of additional displacement and it calculated out at over 7,000 pounds. What the h e double hockey sticks have you got loaded on that thing?
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Old 02-07-2012, 20:28   #17
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Re: Is My Lagoon 380 Catamaran Overweight??

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Originally Posted by Thumbs Up View Post
On a 38 you don't get to have "stuff", only gear. If your transoms are dragging in the water, you are overweight. If you are not cruising, so what. Some people extend the hulls on their cats. Sounds like you need to lighten up.
Or buy a 70 footer as they should have by the sounds of it.
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Old 02-07-2012, 20:35   #18
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Re: Is My Lagoon 380 Catamaran Overweight??

You did well to ask... Cheers
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Old 04-07-2012, 22:04   #19
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Re: Is My Lagoon 380 Catamaran Overweight??

Firstly, I'd never ask this on any forum when there are more reliable sources:

1. Your boat will have a metal CE plate with this information embossed on it!
2. The manufacturer publishes this information for prospective purchasers.

In other words, why get a bunch of opinions when you can get the real facts from the builders?

In any event, the CE max. displacement includes: Crew, fuel, water, dink and all options. To give you an idea of what this may mean for a Lagoon 380 read this informative article:

A weighty question! | Lagoon Inside

Finally, in addition to total load, the way in which it is distributed also has a lot of impact upon boat handling and ultimate safety. I see a lot of cats with loaded up bow lockers which sit nose down - Very Bad Idea. Put the weight low and midships in either hull: If that's not possible then load in the rear cabins, followed by the saloon.

Cheers
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Old 04-07-2012, 22:24   #20
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Re: Is My Lagoon 380 Catamaran Overweight??

Take the Lagoon out and sail to windward in heavy seas. If you are slamming badly, then you are too heavy. If you don't have a problem with slamming, don't worry about it.
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Old 05-07-2012, 04:55   #21
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Re: Is My Lagoon 380 Catamaran Overweight??

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Originally Posted by maxingout View Post
Take the Lagoon out and sail to windward in heavy seas. If you are slamming badly, then you are too heavy. If you don't have a problem with slamming, don't worry about it.
Sorry Dave but I am disappointed with this answer.. I fallowed all of yr posting and came to the conclusion that you are a prudent/conservative sailor. To be honnest, I am not, but with this kind of cat wether it is upwind or downwind, I won't even leave the port..
My Orana has about 3 tons of payload and when I left for the Atlantic passage I left even some hefty spare parts behind to keep the boat significantly below this mark. Light boat=increased safety/faster sailing. (faster sailing also is a part of safety as you can runaway from cyclones faster and earlier)

This much loaded boat is a clear recipie to disaster..

Extra slamming is one of the factors to be considered but more importantly, heavy boat will not be able to convert the extra power on the rigging to the kinetic energy (speed) on rough seas and winds regardless whether you sail downwind or upwind. On the other hand, heavily loaded boat may not slam badly if she has a high bridge deck clearance, but this doesn't mean that she is safe.
I sailed regularly at 9-10 knts under spinneaker on the north Atlantic passage at 20 kts of true, surfing sometimes up to 17 kts on the waves; I cannot figure out what would have happened with this kind of boat.
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Old 05-07-2012, 13:58   #22
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Re: Is My Lagoon 380 Catamaran Overweight??

I see I was wrong at figuring 200 lb per person Lagoon says people weight 165 lbs with a small gear bag ( those Europeans sure are skinny ) and personal gear bag must be about 20 lbs ( intead of 40 lbs, travel light) and looks like 6 folks is a full crew with perional gear, total = 1110 lbs not the 2000 lbs I first guessed sorry . Every thing else is above Lagoons standards
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Old 05-07-2012, 14:07   #23
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Re: Is My Lagoon 380 Catamaran Overweight??

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I see I was wrong at figuring 200 lb per person Lagoon says people weight 165 lbs with a small gear bag ( those Europeans sure are skinny ) and personal gear bag must be about 20 lbs ( intead of 40 lbs, travel light) and looks like 6 folks is a full crew with perional gear, total = 1110 lbs not the 2000 lbs I first guessed sorry . Every thing else is above Lagoons standards
Sounds like Ryan Airs weight requirements!!! lol
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Old 05-07-2012, 20:22   #24
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Re: Is My Lagoon 380 Catamaran Overweight??

Even without loading all your personal stuff, the 'bare boat' weight adds up pretty fast:

CE Maximum for Category A is 8 persons = say, 640 kg with gear
Water 300L = 300 kg
Fuel 200L = 170 kg
Ground Tackle + Chain (2.1 kg/m) = 2 x 25kg + 200 kg = 250 kg
Genset = 300 kg
Aircons = 3 x 25 kg = 75 kg
Dinghy + 10 hp engine = 110 kg
Extra cruising Batteries 2 x 210 ah = 170 kg
Watermaker = 50 kg
Tools & Spares = 50 kg
Solar Panels = 75 kg

TOTAL 1550 kg

Then you'll need to add the weight of extra sails, rope, food, clothes, reference books & manuals etc. It all adds up pretty quickly - there isn't much spare capacity left!.
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Old 05-07-2012, 20:32   #25
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Re: Is My Lagoon 380 Catamaran Overweight??

Muskoka is right talk to Lagoon, if you go over their limits you may have insurance implications.
One thing everybody seems to agree on is that weight is critical on Cats.
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Old 05-07-2012, 22:09   #26
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Re: Is My Lagoon 380 Catamaran Overweight??

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeloya View Post
Sorry Dave but I am disappointed with this answer.. I fallowed all of yr posting and came to the conclusion that you are a prudent/conservative sailor. To be honnest, I am not, but with this kind of cat wether it is upwind or downwind, I won't even leave the port..
My Orana has about 3 tons of payload and when I left for the Atlantic passage I left even some hefty spare parts behind to keep the boat significantly below this mark. Light boat=increased safety/faster sailing. (faster sailing also is a part of safety as you can runaway from cyclones faster and earlier)

This much loaded boat is a clear recipie to disaster..

Extra slamming is one of the factors to be considered but more importantly, heavy boat will not be able to convert the extra power on the rigging to the kinetic energy (speed) on rough seas and winds regardless whether you sail downwind or upwind. On the other hand, heavily loaded boat may not slam badly if she has a high bridge deck clearance, but this doesn't mean that she is safe.
I sailed regularly at 9-10 knts under spinneaker on the north Atlantic passage at 20 kts of true, surfing sometimes up to 17 kts on the waves; I cannot figure out what would have happened with this kind of boat.
Cheers
Yeloya
Not all cats are created equal, and the effect of overloading varies significantly with the design.

When I sailed the first time to New Zealand, there were three cats in Whangarei undergoing repairs to the bridge decks for damage created by slamming.

Bridgedeck design is extremely important when it comes to how well the boat stands up to the rigors of sailing to windward in heavy seas. An overloaded boat is asking for bridge deck damage. I have also seen damage to cats when the bridge deck joins the hull at a right angle rather than a radius curve.

The point that overloading becomes dangerous depends a great deal on the design of the yacht, how it is sailed, and the conditions in which it is sailed.

We sailed downwind around the world, and we were heavily loaded. When sailing off the wind and on beam reaches, we had very little slamming. Close hauled in rough seas was an entirely different matter.

Some people will never sail beyond sight of land, and they will get along fine in an overloaded state. Others will sail downwind around the world, and they will find that sailing downwind is often forgiving to the overloaded cat.

When you start sailing upwind in rough seas, you quickly create a demolition derby in an overloaded cat. That is exactly what happened to the three cats with bridge deck damage in New Zealand.
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Old 05-07-2012, 22:24   #27
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Re: Is My Lagoon 380 Catamaran Overweight??

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Originally Posted by maxingout View Post
Not all cats are created equal, and the effect of overloading varies significantly with the design.

When I sailed the first time to New Zealand, there were three cats in Whangarei undergoing repairs to the bridge decks for damage created by slamming.

Bridgedeck design is extremely important when it comes to how well the boat stands up to the rigors of sailing to windward in heavy seas. An overloaded boat is asking for bridge deck damage. I have also seen damage to cats when the bridge deck joins the hull at a right angle rather than a radius curve.

The point that overloading becomes dangerous depends a great deal on the design of the yacht, how it is sailed, and the conditions in which it is sailed.

We sailed downwind around the world, and we were heavily loaded. When sailing off the wind and on beam reaches, we had very little slamming. Close hauled in rough seas was an entirely different matter.

Some people will never sail beyond sight of land, and they will get along fine in an overloaded state. Others will sail downwind around the world, and they will find that sailing downwind is often forgiving to the overloaded cat.

When you start sailing upwind in rough seas, you quickly create a demolition derby in an overloaded cat. That is exactly what happened to the three cats with bridge deck damage in New Zealand.

Nahh, hard to believe, is a lagoon 38, and is overloaded between 7000 and 9000 pounds, the 38 slam badly in heavy seas with load or without load,
is dangerous downwind , reaching, beating,,, plus the structures of lagoons dont have the strenght for this kind of punishment.
Define overloaded!
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Old 05-07-2012, 22:27   #28
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Re: Is My Lagoon 380 Catamaran Overweight??

Here we go........
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Old 05-07-2012, 22:36   #29
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Re: Is My Lagoon 380 Catamaran Overweight??

I mean is dangerous with all this kilos onboard, is not designed for this kind of weight, beating to windward in anything more than 4 ft the cat slam and slam , i delivery 2 380 premium from france to martinique and this cat are not happy against seas and wind , just imagine with 9000 extra pounds! ohh no way...
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Old 05-07-2012, 22:40   #30
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Re: Is My Lagoon 380 Catamaran Overweight??

Yer i didnt think you were going to go the wrong way by your previous very helpful posts....

Years ago we used to engrave an indent into the hull on the 'lightship' mark then increase the antifoul/boot topping line to the "loaded" line plus an inch....

Monitoring this was easy but sadly people no longer think this way then blame the design for the slamming and poor performance, i guess it's to be expected when the masses go boating....

Cheers Frank
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