is longer really more expensive?

[Jim Cate]

Heath, there is another factor beyond incremental expense for larger boats: these things are COMPLICATED and require a LOT of maintenance. Some years ago we met a youngish Brit family, sailing in NZed. They had ample means, and had bought a 5 year old, little used 95 foot ketch... modern design and construction of the day (around 1992). They had two teen age girls aboard, and had hired 2 adults as tutors for them. the owner, a successful engineer, had decided to do all the maintenance himself, save perhaps hiring help for bottom paint. He was a very experienced sailor and owner, and kept a 50 foot racer.cruiser back in England as well.

They had been out a few months at this stage, and he confided to me that he wasn't having a good time, for the routine maintenance was taking up all his time and energy.
Not long thereafter they laid off one of the tutors and hired a full time engineer/deckhand. He smiled a lot more after that!

My point in this tedious story? Don't underestimate the amount of effort and time required to stay ahead of a big and complicated vessel. May not be too much increment between 42 and >50 feet in a modern catamaran, but in general, bigger boats have more systems and gadgets and bits to go wrong than smaller ones, so beware.

Jim

[rallyman1122]

Here is a link to a couple that has cruised for almost three years non stop. They have a section in this video on expenses and have also posted on their blog. They are on a Helia 44 purchased new so that can give you some frame of reference.
https://youtu.be/IxPqi1P8Gtk

[Heath68]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Heath, there is another factor beyond incremental expense for larger boats: these things are COMPLICATED and require a LOT of maintenance...
Don't underestimate the amount of effort and time required to stay ahead of a big and complicated vessel....

Jim

Such as a chain!! 😊 (Thanks for sharing that.. and this)

I am happy to do a reasonable amount of maintenance as I think I'll get bored otherwise (there's only so many restaurants you want to critique or local dishes you've not cooked) besides I'm a little frugal by nature if I think I can do it myself (I'm currently rebuilding stud walling at home and first fixing wiring the attic to convert it into a room) I tend to have a go.

Heath

[CatNewBee]

So go for it and let us know what your favorite cat will be at the end.

Fair winds!

[Jeannius]

Can't comment on the cost differences as I've only owned a 44ft boat. The one thing I can say is that during 4 years living aboard and circumnavigating, with my wife as crew, I never once said... wish I had a bigger boat.


If you do decide 50ft is the length for you, talk to Catherine Relandeau at CathYacht. She was - and perhaps still is - sales director at Privilege when I bought my boat and specialises in 50ft and above cats.

[2big2small]

For maintenance, the most likely repairs, and fuel consumption, the cost for a 50’ boat will be nearly 50% higher than for a 44’ boat (of similar build). 47% to be precise and it’s rather likely to be dead on over a period of 6 to 7 years.

Berthing would be around 30% more expensive but there’s a lot of variation in how marinas calculate their fees.

Insurance cost is tied to the value of the boat as mentioned above.

I am from the school of thought of going as small as you’re willing to live in. Whatever boat over 40’ you just get used to it in a matter of a couple of months and won’t miss the perceived roominess of a bigger boat. Simply get the smallest boat that has all the features you absolutely want (not those you feel aren’t essential) regardless of roominess, and you’ll be all the happier for it. It might turn out to be less than 44’. Just my 2 cents and the way my experience as a full time liveaboard of many years and miles has driven my thinking.

If you were intending to stay mostly in a single area I would think going bigger than that wouldn’t be much of an issue. But since you want to go around the world go as small as you can, which will make you all the more adaptive and flexible to whatever circumstances and adventures you end up having.

Otherwise you might very well end up finding that sailing a 50’ boat with just a couple becomes a drag and feel you’re in over your head. I’ve met a couple on a 50’ Catana who were tired of it and looking to downsize. I’ve also met a couple on a 75’ custom cat who were as happy as a clam. It’s hard to predict How you’ll end up viewing your first boat about two years into the trip.

Regardless of what you end up choosing I congratulate you for your change of lifestyle and whatever the amount of work and money you need to spend on maintenance and repairs, never let it get to you and fully enjoy this lifestyle of ours that is truly privileged, regardless of the means we each have.

So welcome to the cruising life and have fun!

[boatman61]

Its all relative really.. mono's or cats, big or small..
I bought a boat in the Caribe for $60K, spent $10K fitting her out then spent not a penny more other than fuel, marina's and other normal running costs on her in the 2.5yrs I owned her.. crossed the Atlantic on her, sailed the E Atlantic, Madeira, Azores, Spain, Portugal, France and UK S coast.
I got another boat in Malta, it cost me €14K just to get her the 2000 odd nm back to Portugal.. gearbox failed, hydraulics failed, AP failed.. in the end I let her go when the out goings got to €22K.. totally unexpected problems.. and the torturous delivery trip was the only trip I made on her.
That's one reason I say.. don't buy the biggest and best you can afford.. buy the best you can afford to lose.. because lose you will more often than not.. and folks saying otherwise are not the one's that stand to lose..
Brand new does not mean hassle/fault free for 5 years as many have discovered.
The environment is totally different from anything land life has to offer.

[LeeV]

Originally Posted by Heath68

Thanks LeeV

Currently our dream boat list looks like this:

1. Xquisite 50/Dean 5000 (like the tech, 3 cabins, solid if not a bit slow)
2. Privilege series 5 or 515 (Love the 3 cabin layout, bit quicker than No1 & can be shaft drive)
3. St Francis 50 (Quick enough, shaft drive but interior not quite a match on 1&2)
4. FP Helia 44 (good stable cat with reasonable performance)

Any advice gratefully received.. and thanks for all those posted thus far

Heath, come to Annapolis this fall and look over the "New 42 from FP;" she looks like a nice compromise between 40 and 50 (imho).

Regards,

[CatNewBee]

There is the Helia (44) and the Saona (47) in between the 40 (Lucia) and the 50 (Saba),
so lots of opportunities to spend money :-)

[Heath68]

Originally Posted by Jeannius

Can't comment on the cost differences as I've only owned a 44ft boat. The one thing I can say is that during 4 years living aboard and circumnavigating, with my wife as crew, I never once said... wish I had a bigger boat.


If you do decide 50ft is the length for you, talk to Catherine Relandeau at CathYacht. She was - and perhaps still is - sales director at Privilege when I bought my boat and specialises in 50ft and above cats.

I met her in Cannes last year and asked her about a 50ft Privilege but my offer was not acceptable. Based upon the answers and opinions so far I think we will plumb for a 50ft. I think my estimations aren't too far off. All I need to do now is sell a house... anyone fancy a pad in Leafy Leicestershire? lol

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Its all relative really.. mono's or cats, big or small..
I bought a boat in the Caribe for $60K, spent $10K fitting her out then spent not a penny more other than fuel, marina's and other normal running costs on her in the 2.5yrs I owned her.. crossed the Atlantic on her, sailed the E Atlantic, Madeira, Azores, Spain, Portugal, France and UK S coast.
I got another boat in Malta, it cost me €14K just to get her the 2000 odd nm back to Portugal.. gearbox failed, hydraulics failed, AP failed.. in the end I let her go when the out goings got to €22K.. totally unexpected problems.. and the torturous delivery trip was the only trip I made on her.
That's one reason I say.. don't buy the biggest and best you can afford.. buy the best you can afford to lose.. because lose you will more often than not.. and folks saying otherwise are not the one's that stand to lose..
Brand new does not mean hassle/fault free for 5 years as many have discovered.
The environment is totally different from anything land life has to offer.

Oh.. and the 1st was a 33ftr.. the 2nd a 39ftr..
So that's your question answered.. longer costs more...

[Heath68]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

There is the Helia (44) and the Saona (47) in between the 40 (Lucia) and the 50 (Saba),
so lots of opportunities to spend money :-)

LeeV I may just do that. Its one of the few shows we've not made yet.

As for 42 vs 44 vs 46 vs 50 (all FP) in my long post we felt the 44 was the sweet spot for us as we've looked over the Saba and there are better 50ft cats out there (I can't get over how my knees hit the wc door as you're sat on the john... also they don't do a 3 cabin version and 3 is plenty for us.

46 is £100,000 more than a 44 for an extra 15" and that looks poor value. I may well look at the 42 but I suspect its probably going to be slower than the 44 and that might then be an issue.

We did look at new but would rather get a nearly new where some (most?) of the niggles should have been ironed out (plus we'd lose less on depreciation). Many thanks CatNewBee

[LeeV]

Our choice (given the funds) would be the Helia 44 Evo.
(Not that this thread has been about my choice!

[DaleM]

Here are some real numbers. Friends of mine would normally respond to this but they are in the Bahamas and out of internet range right now.

They own a 44 sailing cat they bought that was nearly new. He does all the work himself that he can on the boat. His maintenance cost has been $2,00 per month, that is $24,000 US per year since they started cruising. He and I have had this discussion several times on boat maintenance costs and breakage rates. You could say they use their boat too heavily but you say you are going to sail across oceans and they sail ICW and Bahamas. They are full time also. I would take an educated guess that your maintenance cost could be as high as $3,000 per month on a 50 foot cat. I think they could cut those costs in half on the 44 if they babied the boat more.

If the 50' cat maintenance cost was between $1,500 to $3,000 US per month, every month, over your cruising years, could you live with that? If so go with the 50' cat, but if that cuts too much into your monthly income then you have your answer.


Dale

[Suijin]

I’m a little concerned for the OP who I think is amassing a huge volume of theoretical knowledge, including all the divergent opinions expressed here, without the benefit of practical experience on the boats in question.

Explaining your preference for a larger boat based on the fact that you live in an 8,000 sq ft home points to not understanding what living long term on a boat is really like, which bears little resemblance to living in a house.

I would simply say that if you’ve never owned and operated and maintained and lived on a boat at all, if you’re asking how big is too big in terms of cost you’re setting your self up for some nasty surprises.

The point about the greater depreciating value of larger boats is important. It could need absolutely nothing during your ownership and could still cost you considerably more than a smaller boat when the final smoke cleared.

In closing, if you don’t do some charters on the candidate boats then you haven’t really done your homework. Even volunteering as crew would give you valuable insight into your real needs and the boats. I bet if you polled a long list of people that had never owned a boat and bought a big one based on brochures and factory tours a huge percentage of them would say they wished they had bought a different boat. There is no substitute for experience when it comes to boats.