is longer really more expensive?

[Copacabana]

If you go for the new Antares 44 (and it's a great choice), you can pick it up in Argentina at the factory. From there you can cruise the "Green Coast" of Brazil for a while as you work out the bugs and get experience. It's a very benign place to get experience. I've met a few couples on new Antares cats here, learning the boat and tweaking systems. When you think the boat is OK, it's a really nice and easy sail up the coast of Brazil and on to the Caribbean.

[CatNewBee]

You can't compare mass-production cats with individual builds. Size matters on running costs related to it (check out the price lists of harbors, slips etc.).

A production cat is probably cheaper to maintain than a custom build cat like the X5 with all the expensive gimmicks on board vs. a low-budget custom build with almost nothing on board. Your search range is huge. You can't compare just by the size.

You can do this for same manufacturer / age, you can probably do this in the same category (production cats) and a similar age and equipment. But even then it depends on what you need to throw in for a refit.

So if your monthly budget it 7k$, I guess you can afford a larger cat. Don't chose it on the money but on your gut feeling. If the Admiral likes it and you have all you want on board, go for it. Add some 20-30% of the purchase price on top for re-fitting and you'll be fine.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

OK, if you are truly trying to educate us, why don't you show us the "latest discoveries" instead of making unsupported statements? You sound more like a used car salesman than an educator when you talk like this.

Jim

Let's not derail this thread. Guy wants a number and lets give it to him. I am sure he would like to hear less than 15% more, but this is not true.

50 ft boat vs 44 ft of same shape and corresponding equipment, will cost 47% more to maintain.

This is based on length raito to third power.

This is optimistic view.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Heath68

Thanks LeeV


Maybe I should put it like this.. we have a monthly all-in sailing budget of about $7000 and the Admiral is worried that on a 50ft cat we'll spend too much of that on maintenance and upkeep of the boat and not enough of it eating and drinking. (we're food critics and amateur chef hoping to taste our way round the globe and vblog/blog it whilst we just have fun!)

Any advice gratefully received.. and thanks for all those posted thus far

Can you explain what you mean by all in? Is 7K after taxes. Are we talking USD? Is this just to spend on boat/marina/repairs/insurance? Or does this include food/drink/travel/health insurance/visas/etc.

Newer Outremer 44 is 'my dream' boat. I can't imagine anything bigger. But I live in a 2100 ft2 house not 8000 so we have different expectations.

But back to the money, I wouldn't feel comfy on a 50' cat with only 7k per month to take care of the first list, let alone the larger more encompassing second list.

-Chris

[LeeV]

A monthly budget of 7k?!

I’ve been searching but can’t find the spreadsheet I recently saw, gathered from a large group of cruisers all over the place. The average monthly was $2400. Obviously, there were higher and lower; this fellow averaged $3218 monthly over 9 years: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...5&d=1518354393

You’re going to have a great time!

Regards,

[LeeV]

This may assuage any concerns: The Cost of Cruising —

[sailjumanji]

Some thoughts in response to some of the posts. We've lived in a house that was almost 5000 ft2, and - even at the end of our working careers, prepping for move out of the city - an apartment of 800 ft2. The allure of cruising - to me - is not the size of the boat, but the size of the backyard!

If you are looking for the cheapest length boat, the answer is zero ft. When we start talking about depreciation, again, the winner is zero ft. Boats are horrible financial investments. Ownership cannot be justified based on that aspect.

As for best length, I'm not sure how anyone can say what that is for you. We've owned a 33 ft long Seawind cat for twelve years. Mostly day sail, but every other year cruise for 4-5 months. Daysailing around here the boat is perfect - small enough that I can keep the topsides clean and waxed and the bottom scrubbed myself, easy enough to get off the dock, singlehanded sail. For Gulf crossings and open water passages, bigger would be better. Ditto for having another couple onboard. But maintaining, getting off dock, etc. - bigger is not better. That said, we just signed up for a Seawind 1160 Lite (38 ft cat) new build. Go figure.

Finally, budgets are different for everyone. Some people say "I can't believe you spend that much per month, whereas I live cheaply." It's all relative. Most people view owners of decent-sized sailboats and motorboats as "rich". I overhead a couple talking at the polling booth yesterday, and the guy was bragging about his friend that had a 30 ft "yacht". I wouldn't use that term for a 30 ft boat, but that was his perspective. The cool thing we found when cruising the Exumas - and can best be related in a moment - was that there were a group of us "cruisers" gathered at a small beach talking, having a drink and watching the water lap back and forth at the end of the day. We had the smallest boat in the anchorage, and the largest was a 80 ft Hatteras whose owners were sitting besides us. No one talked about smaller, larger, status, whatever - we were all just people sitting there enjoying the surroundings, the fellowship and the moment. No one did it worse, better, all just did it different. Because, again "best" is relative and no one size fits all.

[Heath68]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Can you explain what you mean by all in? Is 7K after taxes. Are we talking USD? Is this just to spend on boat/marina/repairs/insurance? Or does this include food/drink/travel/health insurance/visas/etc.

Newer Outremer 44 is 'my dream' boat. I can't imagine anything bigger. But I live in a 2100 ft2 house not 8000 so we have different expectations.

But back to the money, I wouldn't feel comfy on a 50' cat with only 7k per month to take care of the first list, let alone the larger more encompassing second list.

-Chris

It was actually an all-in $USD amount.

[Heath68]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

Some thoughts in response to some of the posts. We've lived in a house that was almost 5000 ft2, and - even at the end of our working careers, prepping for move out of the city - an apartment of 800 ft2. The allure of cruising - to me - is not the size of the boat, but the size of the backyard!

If you are looking for the cheapest length boat, the answer is zero ft. When we start talking about depreciation, again, the winner is zero ft. Boats are horrible financial investments. Ownership cannot be justified based on that aspect.

As for best length, I'm not sure how anyone can say what that is for you. We've owned a 33 ft long Seawind cat for twelve years. Mostly day sail, but every other year cruise for 4-5 months. Daysailing around here the boat is perfect - small enough that I can keep the topsides clean and waxed and the bottom scrubbed myself, easy enough to get off the dock, singlehanded sail. For Gulf crossings and open water passages, bigger would be better. Ditto for having another couple onboard. But maintaining, getting off dock, etc. - bigger is not better. That said, we just signed up for a Seawind 1160 Lite (38 ft cat) new build. Go figure.

Finally, budgets are different for everyone. Some people say "I can't believe you spend that much per month, whereas I live cheaply." It's all relative. Most people view owners of decent-sized sailboats and motorboats as "rich". I overhead a couple talking at the polling booth yesterday, and the guy was bragging about his friend that had a 30 ft "yacht". I wouldn't use that term for a 30 ft boat, but that was his perspective. The cool thing we found when cruising the Exumas - and can best be related in a moment - was that there were a group of us "cruisers" gathered at a small beach talking, having a drink and watching the water lap back and forth at the end of the day. We had the smallest boat in the anchorage, and the largest was a 80 ft Hatteras whose owners were sitting besides us. No one talked about smaller, larger, status, whatever - we were all just people sitting there enjoying the surroundings, the fellowship and the moment. No one did it worse, better, all just did it different. Because, again "best" is relative and no one size fits all.

I can't wait to do exactly what you describe... however its not about the ideal length (we already know that for us its between 44-50ft and probably one of the makes I already mentioned) its about calculating how much leisure money (restaurants, drinks, excursions, clothing allowance etc) we're going to have to give up each month if we choose a 50ft cat over a 44. I'm happy to do DIY maintenance on engines (oil/filter changes etc) and the boat (simple electrics and plumbing), but I don't think i'll be trying to learn how to sew patches on sails, remaking bimini's or stripping down an engine to get the piston rings changed, so its this (unknown to me) part of owning a cat that's the puzzle. Ideally I'd like a best guess in $ or % from people so I can then see if it is worth it (to us).
Many thanks.

[Heath68]

Originally Posted by LeeV

This may assuage any concerns: The Cost of Cruising —

Thanks Lee, I had already looked through most of these (some are too old to be worthwhile now) and I found that:
Ruby Rose is a 38ft Mono = £2500 or $3500
s/v BeBe is a 52ft mono = £3500 or $5000
mjsailing is a 34ft mono = £1000 or $1400
s/v del vieto is a 40ft mono = £2333 or $3300
s/v sundowner is a 43ft mono = £2125 or $3000

So it didn't really help me. For one all of them are monohulls and not multi's (so that made a realistic total hard to establish) and secondly if I assume that a circa 40ft mono is c$3500 and a 52ft mono is $5000 (40% more) is it really safe to assume that if I guestimate that my 44ft multi is $5000/month that a 50ft would be 40% more or $7000???

... and those articles were the exact reason for the original question :-)

[LeeV]

Originally Posted by Heath68

Thanks Lee, I had already looked through most of these (some are too old to be worthwhile now) and I found that:
Ruby Rose is a 38ft Mono = £2500 or $3500
s/v BeBe is a 52ft mono = £3500 or $5000
mjsailing is a 34ft mono = £1000 or $1400
s/v del vieto is a 40ft mono = £2333 or $3300
s/v sundowner is a 43ft mono = £2125 or $3000

So it didn't really help me. For one all of them are monohulls and not multi's (so that made a realistic total hard to establish) and secondly if I assume that a circa 40ft mono is c$3500 and a 52ft mono is $5000 (40% more) is it really safe to assume that if I guestimate that my 44ft multi is $5000/month that a 50ft would be 40% more or $7000???

... and those articles were the exact reason for the original question :-)

Oops! 🤪

[danielamartindm]

As a pilot, I'll furnish a quote from the flying community that holds true where sailing is concerned.

Speed and cost are inversely proportional.As time goes on, you are far more likely to discern cost as a problem, rather than speed.

[ranchero76]

I have yet to see real numbers from REAL 50ft+ multihull owner who:

1. Lives on boat 100% of the time (not in and out).
2. Always anchored unless free anchorage n/a or emergency.
3. Has complete set of tools onboard, including some fabrication tools.
4. Does all repairs and maintenance himself (including sail, engine, electric, electronic, fiberglass repairs)
5. Able to do DIY bottom paint or replace standing rigging if needed.
6. Doesn't spend a lot for food and alcohol (for example, I spend on food less than $150 per month, and that's in so-called "first world country").
7. Relatively young age (under 50 for sure).

Until I see at least couple guys who are in this category, I say that any other numbers - just useless (for me) numbers in the air, as they have no correlation to my reality or plans.

[mark_morwood]

It sounds like you have a good plan and have enough money to enjoy it with whichever boat you choose. I think your concern about having enough cash for non-essential expenses is sensible, given that it sounds like you are accustomed to what many here would consider a relatively affluent lifestyle, and you very reasonably want to continue a lifestyle you enjoy.

I don't think anyone can give you a specific number for 44' versus 50', but I suspect you are actually beyond that to the point of working out what is the difference in cruising costs for you between particular boats of different lengths.

You seem quite analytical, so an approach that might help for when you are deciding between boat A and boat B, is to find out the following costs for each boat, and see how they differ. These will give you an idea of the relative difference in operating cost, but not the absolute number. Not that you'll necessarily do any of these, but they can give you some idea of relative costs where they differ. I've deliberately chosen items that will vary in cost and are expensive, and assume a traveling lifestyle where you are prepared to spend some money to easily visit and enjoy places. Obviously many costs don't vary between boats, e.g. nights at anchor.
- price a week's dockage at Port Vell in Barcelona in summer
- price a winter stay at Marina da Ragusa in Sicily
- price a one week stay in Zea Marina, Athens
- price a haulout and bottom paint at PowerBoats in Trinidad
- price a replacement engine installed in Ft Lauderdale, FL
- price a replacement main sail with new hardware
- price a set of replacement standing rigging installed

[Heath68]

Originally Posted by mark_morwood

It sounds like you have a good plan and have enough money to enjoy it with whichever boat you choose. I think your concern about having enough cash for non-essential expenses is sensible, given that it sounds like you are accustomed to what many here would consider a relatively affluent lifestyle, and you very reasonably want to continue a lifestyle you enjoy.

I don't think anyone can give you a specific number for 44' versus 50', but I suspect you are actually beyond that to the point of working out what is the difference in cruising costs for you between particular boats of different lengths.

You seem quite analytical, so an approach that might help for when you are deciding between boat A and boat B, is to find out the following costs for each boat, and see how they differ. These will give you an idea of the relative difference in operating cost, but not the absolute number. Not that you'll necessarily do any of these, but they can give you some idea of relative costs where they differ. I've deliberately chosen items that will vary in cost and are expensive, and assume a traveling lifestyle where you are prepared to spend some money to easily visit and enjoy places. Obviously many costs don't vary between boats, e.g. nights at anchor.
- price a week's dockage at Port Vell in Barcelona in summer
- price a winter stay at Marina da Ragusa in Sicily
- price a one week stay in Zea Marina, Athens
- price a haulout and bottom paint at PowerBoats in Trinidad
- price a replacement engine installed in Ft Lauderdale, FL
- price a replacement main sail with new hardware
- price a set of replacement standing rigging installed

Thanks Mark. I think that sounds like a good idea (assuming they will give me prices).
It also means if I keep some records I might be able to help others with some numbers.