Is in-boom furling possible on FP cats?

[Thalas]

Both the Helia 44 and Saona 47 look like amazing blue-water cruisers that could still be single-handed. Most in-boom furling systems seem to need an 87 degree angle between the boom and the mast. The FP cats seem to require a steeper boom angle due to the roof-deck and optional Bimini. Anyone seen in-boom furling on a FP cat? Could you raise where the boom meets the mast by a few feet to get the angle and clearance required?

[boatman61]

Yup.. just reposition the gooseneck.

[Thalas]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Yup.. just reposition the gooseneck.

Thanks. With a solid boom-vang, do you still need a topping lift? Without lazy-jacks, it could be nice to have such a decluttered boom.

[yeloya]

We have had in our yard three boats with in boom furling, all monohulls. I won't mention any brand name but they were all faulty and caused lot of trouble to the owners not to mention the money and time spent to fix them. For the cats the classical mainsail is the best, don't waste yr money for anythingelse.


Cheers


Yeloya

[Thalas]

Originally Posted by yeloya

We have had in our yard three boats with in boom furling, all monohulls. I won't mention any brand name but they were all faulty and caused lot of trouble to the owners not to mention the money and time spent to fix them. For the cats the classical mainsail is the best, don't waste yr money for anythingelse.


Cheers


Yeloya

I hear you. Simplicity is often best. I’m often sailing with just m’lady which is pretty much the same as single handed (though she’s a great DJ, bartender, and activities coordinator). My next boat will do longer voyages and quick, simple, safe reefing from the helm is very attractive. Especially since my crew tends to be non-sailing friends. I will definitely do my homework before committing to a furling system.

[Don C L]

Perhaps you have seen this article, but I thought Peter Harken's comment was interesting in there.
https://www.practical-sailor.com/new...ms-7036-1.html

[accomplice]

Originally Posted by Thalas

Thanks. With a solid boom-vang, do you still need a topping lift? Without lazy-jacks, it could be nice to have such a decluttered boom.

No, you don't need a topping lift.

We have a leisure furl (in boom) on our monohull. Our rigid vang supports the boom. The topping lift is merely an extra halyard.

[Thalas]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Perhaps you have seen this article, but I thought Peter Harken's comment was interesting in there.
https://www.practical-sailor.com/new...ms-7036-1.html

I did see that article. Thanks. It's from 2011 though and like many other sail systems, I do feel that these manufacturers have continued to work through issues as they arise. I've used an in-boom furler on a cat Marina Sailing has in Long Beach and I loved it. Like "guns on board," I feel that the furling system topic tend to get a love/hate response on forums, but there are very real benefits that shouldn't be ignored for those that would benefit from them.

FYI, long ago the first electric windlass systems were "unreliable" and now you don't think twice about using them. Things evolve and half the fun of sailing is each of us tweaking our boat to our particular tastes.

[Thalas]

Originally Posted by accomplice

No, you don't need a topping lift.

We have a leisure furl (in boom) on our monohull. Our rigid vang supports the boom. The topping lift is merely an extra halyard.

Nice! Do you tend to depower the main when you want to reef or do you maintain course?

[Snore]

I regularly single-hand FP 41’s and 44’s on charters ranging from sunsets to 10 days. With practice, single handed reefing them is easy. The only challenge is reefing the main beyond the first reef. But even this 62 YO can do that.

Changing the rig is always dicey. Moving the gooseneck up will move the CoE up, intrinsically this will alter the suggested wind speeds for reefing.

I would suggest chartering a boat with a GOOD charter captain for a few days.

[accomplice]

Originally Posted by Thalas

Nice! Do you tend to depower the main when you want to reef or do you maintain course?

The demo videos show you can do it without depowering, but I depower. Two reasons -- first, in any significant with the sail is driving forward at the luff and increased downhall tension would be needed. Second, the system works very well, but it *is* sensitive to the boom angle as you furl the sail. While I'm sure it is possible to furl with the main powered, it complicates setting the right boom angle.

People talk about the unreliability of these systems, and frankly I don't see it. There are *many* systems on a boat -- and most, I have found, need attention at some point. I have had issues with the Leisure Furl, but I don't consider them serious. In well over 20k nm on it (the PO put on another 45k, but I cannot comment on those miles), the totality of problems I've had have it are as follows:

* If insufficient downhall tension is applied as the sail is hoisted, the furling line will build up on the drum (forward of the mast) in one spot. When it builds up in one place, as opposed to spreading out, it can jam itself on the outside of the drum and stop hoisting. I've been told that fitting a guiding-eye hook on the mast below the furling drum will prevent this problem. All the other installations I've seen have had this eye, but for some reason mine doesn't yet. Some day, I'll add one. Obviously, this isn't a big problem for me (I just supply a little tension), or I'd have already fitted the eye.

* If the boom angle is not correct as the sail is furled, one of two things can happen.
-If the boom is too high, the sail will walk itself backwards on the boom and apply tension aft to the base of the luff track. If you weren't paying attention, one could do some damage this way. This has never happened to us.
- If the boom is too low, the sail will walk itself forwards, and eventually the battens will extend forwards as far as the mast. If you continue furling or unfurling, you can do some damage this way. (I did this early in my learning about the LeisureFurl).
* The sailcover was gone when I bought the boat. Mack Sails built us a new one when we got the main from them. The line they used inside the groove was, I believe, too narrow -- it would pop-out . With it popped out of the groove, not only does it fail to operate as a sailcover, but also if it gets loose it can find its way into a furling sail and jam it. All that's needed is to cut it free where it is attached, but this is why we don't have a sailcover any more. My suggestion (and I what I did), is that I had our mainail fitted with a sunbrella leach, much like a headsail might, and it provides its own sun cover now.

I in no way consider the leisurefurl a safety liability -- on the contrary -- even with depowering the main, being able to furl so easily from the comfort and safety of the cockpit makes reefing a much safer task. Other than the case noted above, it has never jammed. Even if it did jam, if it jams with the sail up you can drop the sail without the furler and lash it to the boom. If it jams with the sail down, that generally wouldn't be an emergency situation.

To my mind, the downside is simply that it is another system on the boat -- another place for something to go wrong. Perhaps the boom is a bit heavier than it would otherwise be, but I don't want to get hit with the boom in either case. Compared to many of the other systems on the boat, the Leisurefurl takes less maintenance than most, improves convenience significantly, and I don't consider a critical system, the malfunctioning of which could create a significant danger. Compared to in-mast systems, it offers the possibility of full horizontal battens, gets rid of all the extra weight up high, and its failure mode is not problematic.

It certainly is possible to sail, short- or even single-handed without a furling main -- but I put it in the "very nice to have" category. My experience with in boom furling is on a mono-hull, but I don't think it would be any different on a cat.