Is an Island packet cat right for me?

[Dieselmech]

Hello fellow sailors.
My Fiance and I are looking at buying a Cruising/Bluewater Yacht. We have flown to QLD and looked at countless mono-hulls in our price range($80,000-$100,000) to name a few, Cole34, Islander36, Cavalier39, Catalina36, Southerly34. Before inspecting all of these mono-hulls I went and looked at an Island Packet Cat 35 but the guy had it up for $130,000(too much) We like the layout of the Cat as it has two queen beds and plenty of room in the galley. It is well equipped with a watermaker, solar panels and additional sails. After a month or so the gentleman that owned the Island Packet Cat called me and said "Look I really want the boat gone will you buy it for $85,000?" I went for a second inspection and did some research only to find out that these Cats are very very slow and Catamaran owners do not like there design. Are they really as bad as people say? Would this boat be an OK boat to cross an ocean? and lastly is the $85,000 a good deal if the survey checks out ok?

Thanks Dieselmech

[a64pilot]

I don’t want to offend anyone, so please if I do I apologize.
I have an Island Packet mono, they are well thought of and their niche is a strong build and comfortable Boat and to that end they give up performance a little bit, IP’s are heavy constructed boats, tough but heavy. It’s just how they build boats.
Weight is not such a good thing on a Cat I don’t believe, but never having owned one myself I can’t state that with knowledge.
I have never sailed a Packet Cat, but it’s my belief that they don’t sail very well and do not have the following that their mono hull brothers do.
My gut feeling is though that they would make a great liveaboard Boat, just maybe not such a good voyaging one.

I believe they do not have good resale value like their mono brothers and sisters, they just don’t seem to be sought after.
My assumption is think of it as a motorsailor and if you can live with that and you get a good price, then you will have a high quality, strong build Boat, maybe just not such a good sailboat though.

I’m sure they were trying to cash in on the Catamaran craze and just didn’t know how to build a Cat.

[valhalla360]

I've seen a couple of these. They are almost trimarans (If you look bow on, there are 3 bows in the water and the center one is pretty fat.). So don't expect high performance.

I might consider one for coastal cruising. With twin engines, they should maneuver well. Interior living space is very good even compared to most other cats in this size range.

They might be able to cross oceans but there are better options if you want a tough small cat for ocean crossings that isn't a speed team. Prout and Catalac are good names and you should be able to get a good example for similar or lower prices.

[Sailmonkey]

They’re roomy and solid, but share more of a common ancestry with a deck barge than a true sailing catamaran.

[boeing1]

worked on one seemed solid and well built, has good room for working on the engines, and is a very roomy boat, as stated before not really a cat, rather a tri. think he is putting it on the market,

[mnh]

Not an expert on this,but...
from the IP cat owners who I've talked to, they claim that the "Delta Pod" (middle projection) slams quite a bit when going to windward. I was looking at buying one too several years ago, but having a needless appendage burying itself into bow waves did not seem very appealing. I think that was a primary reason IP stopped making them...
mnh

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by mnh

Not an expert on this,but...
from the IP cat owners who I've talked to, they claim that the "Delta Pod" (middle projection) slams quite a bit when going to windward. I was looking at buying one too several years ago, but having a needless appendage burying itself into bow waves did not seem very appealing. I think that was a primary reason IP stopped making them...
mnh

Ive sailed an IP Cat...and can attest that the "delta pod" idea did not work out. It was meant to dampen slamming, but holy bridge deck Batman, it makes the slamming way worse...whole rig was vibrating with each thundering impact. Sailing was not exactly stellar either.

It is solidly built and not a bad layout for an older generation cat.

As I understand it, the boat was a big fail for IP.

Seller clearly wants to unload it, probably because its not easy to sell. While the price may be appealing, bear in mind that you may be stuck w this boat when you want to sell.

Offer $65K and then later sell it to someone looking for a house or canal boat. [emoji41]

[Cpt Mark]

Hi,

A lot of questions and some interesting opinions out there.
1st a bit about me. I was a licensed Captain running everything from tugboats to sailboat charters and was Captain on 2 tour boat Catamarans, 40’ and 55’. I ran my own yacht management business and worked on everything on far too may boats to remember. I’ve been sent to various parts of the world to evaluate/survey multimillioin dollar sailing yachts f]or my clients. Previously owned a Landfall 39 (Taiwanese, Ron Amy design not the Canadian C&C) that I’d intended to sail around the world in. That boat was sold before that trip began. So while I have quite a bit of experience the opinions expressed below are just that, another sailor’s opinion.
When I bought Landfall she had all the design features I wanted including a bullet proof hull, storage, room etc. Landfall I rigged for single handed sailing and she performed as well as could be expected of a full keel, heavy displacement ‘mono. I had a new jib built and made them build it to withstand 20 knot winds under full sail. I made a spinnaker for it and usually could sail hull speed in most winds. Sails and choices make a huge difference.
I was introduced to a 40’ cat and looked hard building one. I chose not to because of the weight penalty with cats. Weigh them down, the performance drops rapidly. At the time though I had no direct experience with cats. I’m a retired scuba instructor and plan to have a compressor and tanks. BTW, I have a scuba compressor that will be going in the delta pod.
Life changed, Landfall was sold and has been in Mexico for several years now. As I learned how to sail Cats and what their plusses and minuses were I knew I wanted as cat. 2.5 years ago I{ had a bad fall back/packing, paralyzed from the neck down, not a good time. I am still recovering but can walk ok and found out I could sail again.
Fast forward.
A friend of mine had been looking for several years for a Cat he could singlehand around the world. He asked me to go look at cats in Florida. We looked at a lot of cats both for him and now, myself. Ruled them all out for various reasons but the process allowed us to narrow down what we really wanted.
Returning to Seattle we continued to look online and I found 2 that we hadn’t seen. 1 i[n Texas and 1 in San Francisco. Then found a broker in our backyard that had 1 of each for sale. We quickly ruled out the Solaris 36 (atrocious design) and both fell in love with the IP Packet Cat. There were 2 for sale and we each bought one. His went for over 100K and was in near perfect condition. Mine was 50K and needed everything. If the PC is in good condition expect to pay 100K. Do they have a following? Well, only 41 were made.
So reading the other posts I have some comments.
Hull. IP makes very strong/heavy hulls. As such, none of their boats are racing machines but that is by design. The tradeoff for speed is durability. I want something that withstand hurricanes (Landfall had been through 2.) If I hit a reef, I prefer the reef to lose. Someone posted about the 3rd hull slamming into waves. This is exactly the opposite of what it does. The delta pod divides the waves to reduce greatly the slamming you get with a solid front cat. We’re talking bone jarring slamming. That is one reason so many cats have either open or netted bows. I’ve seen several owners of solid front boats add the 3rd partial hull to do exactly what the PC does. The delta pod also provides a ton of storage. The standard rules about speed/water line don’t apply to cats and the 3rd hull doesn’t affect the speed at all. Weight, sail area does.
Prout, Catalac etc.. are good names but the Catalac is slower than the PC and the Prout is on par. At 35’ you’re just not going to get the blazing speeds of a larger cat. Fully loaded, off the wind I expect 10 knots not blazing speed but fine for me. 1 nice thing about IP’s, you can call the factory for help.
We looked at Lagoons and the rest of the made for charter fleet as well a lot of S. African made boats. All room, no storage for cruising but that is not what they are designed for. Charter is fill up the boat with people on it for a week or in the good season not going around the world in all climates and conditions. PC’s were designed for bluewater cruising. Stand up (nearly, I’m 6’1”) room in the engine rooms, cockpit lazarettes that when emptied allow you raise the floor for light, ventilation and even more room to work in the engine room. They have reasonable storage and are easily singlehanded.
Going around Cape Mendocin which is far worse that Point Conception I expected 10-20 knot winds and 8’ seas. What I got was 35 knots sustained with gusts hitting 45 and it was very gusty. Sea state was 2 different swells, 9’ from different directions and 7’ wind waves from the 3rd direction. Sailing solo I was inside a washing machine on high agitation mold LOL. The boat handled this just fine and the hull pounding was amazingly a non-event. Later in the trip, 45 knot winds offshore caught us 15 miles off the coast, wind waves, beam on 1-2’. That was horrible. The rocking was ridiculous. Predicted winds btw were 5 knots. Sigh. Things to look at. Condition of all of the hoses and there are a lot of them.
Holding tank. An IP fav complaint. The issue with PC’s is that they are sealed within the hull with the fuel tank. I’m thinking composting head, remove the holding tank and add another 40 gallons of fuel. Blisters. My friends was loaded, mine has none.
Now, to your question, is it suitable? Nobody can answer that but you. Some people are either mono or cat sailors. What does cruising look like to you? Most of the time will be spent at anchor or marina depending followed by short hops to the next anchorage. For me, I love the stability of a cat and face it, who wants to in a crammed cockpit when a bunch of people are getting together? At least 80% of your time will be sitting somewhere not sailing.

85K? That was what mine was listed for and I paid a lot less. Not counting my labor I have 20K into it and more to go. 1 other thing to check is the shaft tubes for the prop shafts. Mine were stainless and corroded, both shafts were bad. That was 6K alone.

Long post, hope it helps.

[Jim Cate]

Hmm...

One poster reporting that the strange bow created horrible slamming, the next saying that it worked to eliminate slamming completely.

Is there a tie-breaker out there? It would be good if these divergent opinions could be resolved for the OP.

Jim

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by Dieselmech

Hello fellow sailors.
My Fiance and I are looking at buying a Cruising/Bluewater Yacht. We have flown to QLD and looked at countless mono-hulls in our price range($80,000-$100,000) to name a few, Cole34, Islander36, Cavalier39, Catalina36, Southerly34. Before inspecting all of these mono-hulls I went and looked at an Island Packet Cat 35 but the guy had it up for $130,000(too much) We like the layout of the Cat as it has two queen beds and plenty of room in the galley. It is well equipped with a watermaker, solar panels and additional sails. After a month or so the gentleman that owned the Island Packet Cat called me and said "Look I really want the boat gone will you buy it for $85,000?" I went for a second inspection and did some research only to find out that these Cats are very very slow and Catamaran owners do not like there design. Are they really as bad as people say? Would this boat be an OK boat to cross an ocean? and lastly is the $85,000 a good deal if the survey checks out ok?

Thanks Dieselmech

These are dogs- not good for bluewater

[Lynnfairwind]

I have been a sailor/cruiser for 30 years. Owned 4 monohulls, the last one being a pilot house because I dont like living in a cave and love to see where I am. It was my husband who wanted a catamaran, to which I told him we were not getting any younger and he should look for one. The ones in our price range, mainly a Gemini, which we test sailed and it was horrid, we kept our eyes open. When walked about our present Catalac 10 for the first time in Ft. Lauderdale, I said, I could do this boat!!! So we put our pilot house on the market in Mazatlan, sold it, and 2 years later my husband found another Catalac 10M for sail in Maine, where we happened to be.

When we stepped aboard the boat, I realized it was the same boat we had seen in Ft. Lauderdale, and the owners had just changed the name, sailed north, and even wintered aboard. We bought it immediately, out fitted it for cruising as it was bare bones, sailed as far as Charleston, SC for the winte,r and began doing the Great Loop the following spring. That was 2010 and we have loved and added to Felix - "the cat" ever since.

I know Island Packets, which are great, but I do not know their catamarans.
I am a sailor, but we all know that the time you spend sailing is much less than the time you spend living on your boat. I want comfort. That said, we have been very impressed with our Catalac's sailing abilities and my husband will tell you many a story, such as "about having his coffee sitting upright when cruising friends on a mono-hull, cruising with us, said it was the worst trip they ever had. Their batteries had come loose and they thought they were going to come crashing through their holding straps. "

Our Catalac 10M Felix is for sale, as we now have a canal boat in France and have spent the last 4 summers there. We also are moving into our house in Florida for the winter, and feel it is time to sell Felix. 2 boats is just too much work! I have written all of the above, not to get you to look at the Catalacs, which you can see several on the catamaransite.com, but to give you options and ideas on your search. Good luck and may you find the perfect boat for your adventures. Lynn

[contrail]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Hmm...

One poster reporting that the strange bow created horrible slamming, the next saying that it worked to eliminate slamming completely.

Is there a tie-breaker out there? It would be good if these divergent opinions could be resolved for the OP.

Jim

I am guessing the fellow who did not slam probably cracks off the wind a bit more than the fellow who did. In my opinion, that's a common fault. Sail or motor sail at a sailing angle. I think that cats are so good as powerboats, that people forget and just power directly into wind and waves and then complain. You can make any many mono's slam that way, too.

[Dieselmech]

Mkrajcar thank you so much for your reply, you have highlighted some interesting points. The packet cat that I am considering buying is located in Darwin Aus. It has sailed across the pacific with a full detailed log of maintenance and the passage. Please consider that the price is in Aus Dollers so this is sounding like an even better deal than I thought if you paid 50k usd. Im very up and down about the decision but Im leaning more towards buying it. Thanks guys. Any more information would be helpful. If there are any more packet cat owners that could comment that would be great.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by contrail

I am guessing the fellow who did not slam probably cracks off the wind a bit more than the fellow who did. In my opinion, that's a common fault. Sail or motor sail at a sailing angle. I think that cats are so good as powerboats, that people forget and just power directly into wind and waves and then complain. You can make any many mono's slam that way, too.

In my case, it was sailing to weather in moderately heavy conditions (30 kts, seas 4-6').

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Hmm...

One poster reporting that the strange bow created horrible slamming, the next saying that it worked to eliminate slamming completely.

Is there a tie-breaker out there? It would be good if these divergent opinions could be resolved for the OP.

Jim

I would bet a lot has to do with conditions and how the helmsman handled them.

We did the Great Loop over a few years with a Gemini 3400. It would slam but only under specific conditions. Basically if you tried to power directly into a short steep chop (3-4' waves), it would slam horribly but crack off 20-30 degrees and it typically went away. If the waves got much bigger or were not steep, you typically rode up and over rather than slamming. If you were going with the waves, a total non-issue.

So I suspect that if someone was just powering dead into short steep waves with the PC, they probably experienced similar issues. On the other hand, someone else may have cracked off a bit and it wasn't so bad.