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Old 08-04-2007, 17:35   #1
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interesting idea

Revisiting a Mast-Aft Sailing Rig

i know at the moment bold and adventuring catamaran builders and designers are finally looking outside the box and think of things like biplane rigs to lower centre of effort/ make sails more handleable but hows this for interesting
sean
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Old 08-04-2007, 18:05   #2
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it does look interesting, but i'd like to see how it stands up to sea time before I'd trust it on my boat.

also while the article says large mainsails are hard to deal with, it seems like large headsails would be even more dangerous
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Old 08-04-2007, 18:50   #3
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i guess you'ld roller furl them, i knew mains lost a bit of power due to the mast but i had no idea it was between 1-2 ft on my boat thats between 3.3-6.6 m2
sean
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Old 09-04-2007, 11:04   #4
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Great post, northerncat . . .

. . . and I'd like to see someone construct a proof-of-concept vessel to see how theory compares to reality.

TaoJones
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Old 01-05-2007, 22:51   #5
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Delta sail rig

The first Kantola trimaran I ever saw had the exact rig you guys are talking about. The boat was called "EZ Glider" and its owner said he was very happy with the way it sailed.
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Old 02-05-2007, 05:55   #6
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While I like the "mast-aft rig", my preference is a bi-pod (A-frame) arrangement, as seen here: SMG-Multihull - sail the difference
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Old 02-05-2007, 06:15   #7
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KiteShip develops and markets Very Large Free Flying Sails (VLFFS) and control systems, technology and techniques for launching, controlling and recovering same aboard boats, ships, industrial and aerospace applications.
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Old 02-05-2007, 07:01   #8
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A Frame and Kite

Lode: In the late 80s early 90s there was a monohull that was built and rigged by a group of manufacturers that was used for boatshow and print advertising that went by the name "Halcyon". It had the A frame rig like the one you mentioned It also was the first boat that had seen that was designed with the organic sweeping cabin top and windows. Ahead of its time and very pretty.

Gord: What I like about the Traction Kite rig is that it is easily retrofitted and does not take a lot of gear to control. There was a site that talked about a lighter than air Kite that had a helium filled leading surface that kept it aloft out of the water.

Both systems are great ideas IMO.
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Old 04-05-2007, 21:02   #9
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Rob,

I've seen pictures of Halcyon, and agree she's an attractive yacht. Here's another with a discussion about the rig: Home

Kevin
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Old 04-05-2007, 21:29   #10
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A Frame Rig

Hy Kevin, that Kolika is a very crafty boat. The rig is pretty much as I remember seeing on Halcyon. Did you check out the rudder? It is balanced and has the trim tab trailing edge. I have never seen the alternating vents like that. Kort nozzle too. Lotsa thought went into that boat.

Rob
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Old 05-05-2007, 10:46   #11
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you should check out Brian's latest rig on his website:
DynaRig MotorSailer
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Old 05-05-2007, 13:10   #12
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mast-aft rig

There is a monohull with a Ketch rig set up this way in Friday Harbor, WA. I haven't seen it out-N-about but it has a double roller reefing on the fore mast and a single roller reefing on the aft mast.

The disadvantages I see are the extreme beefing up of the (backstay) shroud chainplates. The stresses of holding a mast at such an angle, and then adding some forestays, would be tremendous in a rough sea.

I liked the idea years ago when I first seen it but the structure of the hull would definitely be in question if one were to go with this rig. The one in Friday Harbor is a steel hull. I knew I should have taken pictures.
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Old 15-08-2007, 21:23   #13
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Procyon and Friday Harbor boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by roblanford
...The rig is pretty much as I remember seeing on Halcyon. Rob
I think you must be thinking of Olaf Harken's boat Procyon. I was always fascinated by it as well; reference this considerable discussion I posted:
PROCYON project........a Bold experiment - Boat Design Forums

Quote:
Originally Posted by delmarrey
There is a monohull with a Ketch rig set up this way in Friday Harbor, WA. I haven't seen it out-N-about but it has a double roller reefing on the fore mast and a single roller reefing on the aft mast
I believe you may be referring to these two Greenway 'wishbone mast' rigs
Boat Design Forums - View Single Post - WishBone Sailing Rig

Boat Design Forums - View Single Post - WishBone Sailing Rig

The whole thread subject starts here:
WishBone Sailing Rig - Boat Design Forums
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Old 18-06-2016, 10:28   #14
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Re: interesting idea

Just ran into this discussion from quite some time ago. Thought I would update it just a bit with a very interesting CFD & Wind Tunnel study carried out on an aft-mast sail rig.

Wind tunnel and CFD investigation of unconventional aftmast rigs
Aftmast rigs??? - Page 52 - Boat Design Forums

Quote:
Both experimental tests and VPP calculation show that the double jib configuration with overlap gives the best performance and also the same configuration without overlap gives better results in comparison with the standard sloop solution.
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Old 18-06-2016, 19:00   #15
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Re: Great post, northerncat . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaoJones View Post
. . . and I'd like to see someone construct a proof-of-concept vessel to see how theory compares to reality.

TaoJones
Here ya go:

FreeFlow Catamarans

Built 2010 with aft mast and wishbone reverse vang for performance. Keshi has sailed around Australia since then in some very challenging conditions on all points of sail. It sails beautifully as I can attest to personally, having test sailed her.

Big advantages in sail handling for shorthanded crew or singlehanded ( the owner is in his mid 70's and single hands usually), light air performance, and balance working to weather.

FYI, Lagoon designers VPLP saw a 52 foot FreeFlow sister ship being built in China and closely examined the aft mast engineering. Just co-incidentally (ha ha ha) the Lagoon 52 & 39 appeared thereafter. You would not know this from reading their marketing blabla, of course. It is all due to their "innovation".

But there are some aft mast implementations that have not considered the support engineering considerations well enough, let's put it that way.

You may also want to consider the performance aspects and look up how many performance sailing craft are using reverse vang configuration.
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