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Old 16-09-2008, 14:21   #91
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I will ad one item to this thread
When butterfly was first lifted into the water the crane driver told the factory manager around 6000 kilo.
In mean while last week I have had African Love weighted for the Texel rating with a crane lift and a calibrated load cell and the following results came out
The Load cell showed a weight of 8985 kilo
The crane showed a weight of 11000 kilo or a difference of 2115 kilo
That is a difference of more than 20 %
I never knew that cranes where this incorrect in their weight but after speaking to the crane driver he told me if he picks up the same object 3 times he gets 3 different readings.
African Love , hull number 002 was loaded with 500 litres of water , 450 litres of diesel and the normal equipment carried on a boat for short cruises with a crew of 4
From this moment on I will only work with calibrated load cells because of the accuracy.
The load cell used had a max variance of 10 kilo,s or 0.1 %
we will know next week what the actual weight of Butterfly is but according to my calculations it should be 8270 excluding water and diesel but with all equipment on board.
Greetings

Gideon
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Old 16-09-2008, 14:25   #92
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Hallo Pieter
We do not use Nanni engines and never have, we use Lombardini and the smallest recommended size is 20 although I have never installed these yet, I have a couple in stock for the minimalist but everybody always seems to want bigger engines , I thought we produced a sailing cat and engines are only necessary to go into and get out of a harbour.
Somebody I know used to own the First Wildcat ever build and he use 2 x 9.9 hp outboards If I recall well and was happy with the result.
Years ago I owned a Mc Gregor 36 , few people will know this cat buty 15 HP worked just fine on the 36 ft cat

Greetings

Gideon
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Old 16-09-2008, 14:33   #93
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Gideon, is it practical for you to develop a TPCI graph from your computer generated hull form and etch draft marks fore and aft so that an Owner would be able to monitor and control the boat’s weight during its cruising life?

Would be a nice feature.

Crane weight sensors are notoriously inaccurate as their primary role is to advise the operator of safety and boom restrictions within a generous SWL margin.
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Old 16-09-2008, 14:46   #94
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Maybe I am too simple.
I am quoting the weight of under 6000 kilos claimed by Gideon of the very boat - Butterfly and Barnacle - that is the boat this weight was claimed for and it was claimed recently after the boat was put in the water!!!
If the eror was caused by a crane driver then all I am left bwildered about is that Gideon did not know the weight of his boat to within an increase in weight of 33 per cent and used the incorrect figure to advertise on this forum and also as a base for the weight of following boats!

So all I am doing is directly quoting what Gideon has claimed for this very boat. That is not Gideon bashing. Its simply pointing out what he wrote about the very boat that is the subject of this thread after the boat was put in the water with all the options.

Smoke screens like extended bows etc are added when these are standard on the 455.

Its is the concern of this forum not just the owners because this forum was used to make those public claims.

For Gideon to introduce other matters like the St Francis is not the subkect of the subject of the thread and is a bit silly.

Gideon has chosen such responses instead of directly dealing with his clashing claims on this very forum. All I have done is ask him to account for his claims on this very boat and he has not done so.

I have made my point so I am not going to labour it anymore because I think anyone understanding what has been claimed when the boat was launched and what is now claimed - both from the same person can judge for themselves so I will now leave the point of weight alone and let forum members judge for themselves from the facts presented.
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Old 16-09-2008, 15:04   #95
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Gideon,

You have on this very forum claimed that your boats are built on loadcells, now you are suddenly "suprised" by a difference of a couple of tons between what a crane driver tells you and what load cells say the weight is.

I'm sorry, but I think you are trying to do a "smoke and mirrors" job here.

If you build on load cells as you claim, the weight of the boat at launch can not be a suprise. If it is, then I humbly suggest that you have been misinforming us.

This are you words are they not?

The weight is 5800 kilo when she was lifted into the water without the rig
This cat has lots of options like airco, heating, solar panels, hard top bimini about 700 kilo,s worth including 40 hp engines a 4000 watt inverter charger, dishwasher etcReady to sail weight is 6400 kilo,s including water and diesel

Greetings and welcome back


So does the rig and bed linen weigh 2 tons?

Can I increase my bet? Or is that unfair at this stage?

Alan
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Old 16-09-2008, 15:41   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gludy View Post
Maybe I am too simple.
I am quoting the weight of under 6000 kilos claimed by Gideon of the very boat - Butterfly and Barnacle - that is the boat this weight was claimed for and it was claimed recently after the boat was put in the water!!!
If the eror was caused by a crane driver then all I am left bwildered about is that Gideon did not know the weight of his boat to within an increase in weight of 33 per cent and used the incorrect figure to advertise on this forum and also as a base for the weight of following boats!

So all I am doing is directly quoting what Gideon has claimed for this very boat. That is not Gideon bashing. Its simply pointing out what he wrote about the very boat that is the subject of this thread after the boat was put in the water with all the options.

Smoke screens like extended bows etc are added when these are standard on the 455.

Its is the concern of this forum not just the owners because this forum was used to make those public claims.

For Gideon to introduce other matters like the St Francis is not the subkect of the subject of the thread and is a bit silly.

Gideon has chosen such responses instead of directly dealing with his clashing claims on this very forum. All I have done is ask him to account for his claims on this very boat and he has not done so.

I have made my point so I am not going to labour it anymore because I think anyone understanding what has been claimed when the boat was launched and what is now claimed - both from the same person can judge for themselves so I will now leave the point of weight alone and let forum members judge for themselves from the facts presented.

I am curious about reality myself.
Somehow it seems important to me.
Maybe it is just me.
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Old 16-09-2008, 18:05   #97
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I am closing this thread for now. If any of you would like this decision reversed please send a PM.

The moderators of the forum are not going to tolerate any more baiting, trolling and bashing. If you don't know what those terms are please google them and avoid these behaviors. Any new threads you start will be deleted without warning if they start bashing.

As for unsupported claims made by FastCat we've heard all your arguments. and so has everyone else.



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Non- Moderator Mode -

Just a couple of non-moderator mode points

I love seeing the tech specs and the openess displayed by Gideon. I would be interested to see the CEO of any other cat builder come on this board...

With the list of modifications to butterfly does anyone here seriously expect the weight to go down FFS?

And does anyone here think that Gideon is going to make any "counter claims" to what butterfly is posting? It's his customer for crying out loud. And anyone with customer experience just know that "the customer is always right" is bullshit. Customers can be a PITA.

And BTW as I read the butterfly blog, I see a process between a builder and an owner getting the owner exactly what they want.

As for Beneteau building a "custom boat"? Touche...

How about raising the decks on the St. Francis?
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