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Old 16-09-2008, 03:39   #76
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Just so everyone knows what weight was claimed for Butterfly and Barnacle
Here is a quote from Gideon's earlier post.
-------------
"Andreas has purchased the Proof of concept prototype 435
The total weight was a bit over 8000 kilo
Hull number 2 that will come for sale this year has a weight ready to sail of 6900 kilo
The last FastCat that was launched was well under 6000 kilo with all the options
And it is our aim to get a FastCat 455 with out options but ready to sail into the water at or under 5000 kilo,s
4 FastCat,s have been build and launched and we have 4 455 under construction presently
We just moved to a new bigger factory where we will increase our production to 12 units per year.

Greetings

Gideon
---------------------

Sorry I can not get the quotes or icons to work.

So the claimed weight is below 6000 kilo with all the options.

Now can I place a bet please? It could considerably boost kitty for my new boat :-)
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Old 16-09-2008, 11:26   #77
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Been an interesting thread to follow - especially as now appears to be some betting going on

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastcat435 View Post
Her deck was raised . the bow extended, bigger engines , hardtop Bimini 100 meters of anchor chain ,life raft dingy , outboard , a dishwasher, extra portholes and hatches, dual air conditioning, heater,4 alternators 3 different sized gennakers and many more items on the boat.
To me that is not "production" - at least semi-custom, if not a bit more.....I can imagine the response to "Dear Mr Beneteau, I want one of your boats - except I need the deck raised and the bow extended......"
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Old 16-09-2008, 11:35   #78
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LOL Gludy….my world would probably surprise you… but admittedly that was probably a corny analogy as befitting someone who knows boats better than women.

However, if you discovered twins on the eleventh hour….wouldn’t that be considered a permissible delay?

You know, I read this thread and the criticism of Fastcat then Chief Engineer’s thread: When the job isn't going "fast enough" for you on your boat and as a large yacht owner as well as a professional in the industry I realize that somewhere in the middle lies an attitude that does demonstrate character....which I believe these new Owners have
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Old 16-09-2008, 11:48   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastcat435 View Post

Light ship is 6000 kilo for the bare boat and the Butterfly has many options and will weight around 8200 kilo ready to sail still leaving her with a respectable payload.
Her deck was raised . the bow extended, bigger engines , hardtop Bimini 100 meters of anchor chain ,life raft dingy , outboard , a dishwasher, extra portholes and hatches, dual air conditioning, heater,4 alternators 3 different sized gennakers and many more items on the boat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gludy View Post
So the claimed weight is below 6000 kilo with all the options.

Now can I place a bet please? It could considerably boost kitty for my new boat :-)
I think Gideon was pretty clear on "around 8200 kilo" as the intended weight of Butterfly (given the sh#t load of additional stuff onboard another 2000 kilos does not sound entirely unreasonable - albeit I know fook all about Cats, so no idea whether that total weight is still "good" or not).

I might be interested in taking a bet on the "around 8200 kilo" figure ("around" = 5%?).........
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Old 16-09-2008, 12:09   #80
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Quote:
to me that is not "production" - at least semi-custom, if not a bit more.....I can imagine the response to "Dear Mr Beneteau, I want one of your boats - except I need the deck raised and the bow extended...
..

The bow being extended is I think standard in making it from a 435 to a 455.
The options on ancho chain length etc are all standard options.

More to the point Gideon quoted the weight of this boat in the water with all the options as less then 6000 kilo ........ not much room left for misunderstanding there ... is there!

bigger engines - an option with many boats.

hardtop Bimini - standard option
100 meters of anchor chain - standard option
life raft dingy , outboard = totaoly standard kit.
a dishwasher -an option
This was a standard boat with option that was described as such with a claimed weight by Gideon.
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Old 16-09-2008, 12:15   #81
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Quote:
I think Gideon was pretty clear on "around 8200 kilo" as the intended weight of Butterfly (given the sh#t load of additional stuff onboard another 2000 kilos does not sound entirely unreasonable - albeit I know fook all about Cats, so no idea whether that total weight is still "good" or not).
But he claimed that boat with all the options when placed in the water was under 6000 kilo - that is a fact. When the weight was challenged in this thread - the higher weight appeared.
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Old 16-09-2008, 12:31   #82
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perhaps the owner should decide what the agreed upon weight was....that he discussed with Gideon
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Old 16-09-2008, 12:38   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic cat View Post
It would be my pleasure to share a very good bottle of wine with you Gideon, and I hope that the weight is as you have claimed on numerous other posts here on CF. If so, I will with pleasure pay up! I will even apologise for not believing your weight claim.

If the boat is heavier than you have claimed, will you promise not to make exaggerated claims again?

WHat weight are we talking about now? Please define it clearly, to avoid discussions afterwards?

To make it simple enough for me to understand, please just state what is NOT included in this weight.

Thanks

Alan
Hallo Alan

the Fastcat 435 should weight 8270 with all the options included from bed linnen to rigid inflatable and a huge wardrobe of sails ( 6 ) among 3 gennakers 100 meters of anchor chain is not standard with any boat builder I know 25 meters is standard.
When I put Butterfly on paper the bare weight with soft top was 6500 kilo with 2 x 20 HP
now it is 2 x 40 hp Gludy might think that there is no extra weight involved with bigger engine so maybe he should opt for the Volvo IPS 750 on each side , I am sure they will fit and they are very handy to park the boat with in narrow channels.
Alan I no matter what the outcome on the weighting of the boat is we will share that bottle of wine and forget about the 100 usd you will need it to build your boat , boat building costs lots of money and time.
I would also like to make a bet with Gludy that his St Francis 50 will be heavier than 12500 kilo with all the "so called standard accessory's on board like the hard top bimini etc.

Greetings

Gideon
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Old 16-09-2008, 12:47   #84
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This is getting interesting…..

Weight Watchers Cartoons
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Old 16-09-2008, 12:51   #85
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I presume that what you quoted above was from Gideon (I don't follow the Cat threads a lot ):-

Quote:
The last FastCat that was launched was well under 6000 kilo with all the options
My reading is that it was a 435 and not a 455....for me that says "Bigga boat, gonna weigh more" (and not just from the extra 2 foot of fibreglass).

"All the options" mmmm......I see what you mean. But maybe that should read all the options chosen?? Not trying to make things up as I go along , just that given that Gideon appears to be building performance cats seems a bit strange that his headline low weights would include the bigger engines and stuff like dishwashers and all the toys and goodies that could possibly be fitted onboard from the standard options list.......therefore methinks that Butterly does have a lot more options onboard (than even the 6,000 kilo predeccesor) and therefore more weight, as well as simply being a bigger boat (and specced accordingly).

So I am guessing you are not willing to try a wager on around 8200 kilos? (as I said before, no idea if that weight is good or not for a Cat. nor even how likely.........but I like a gamble )
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Old 16-09-2008, 13:04   #86
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Shut this thread down. The Gideon Bashers and wannabe competitors have hijacked it.
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Old 16-09-2008, 13:08   #87
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Originally Posted by sandy daugherty View Post
Shut this thread down. The Gideon Bashers and wannabe competitors have hijacked it.
I hope not. I've got money riding on this (well, I hope to! ).
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Old 16-09-2008, 13:14   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastcat435 View Post
Hallo Alan

the Fastcat 435 should weight 8270 with all the options included from bed linnen to rigid inflatable and a huge wardrobe of sails ( 6 ) among 3 gennakers 100 meters of anchor chain is not standard with any boat builder I know 25 meters is standard.
When I put Butterfly on paper the bare weight with soft top was 6500 kilo with 2 x 20 HP
now it is 2 x 40 hp Gludy might think that there is no extra weight involved with bigger engine so maybe he should opt for the Volvo IPS 750 on each side , I am sure they will fit and they are very handy to park the boat with in narrow channels.
Alan I no matter what the outcome on the weighting of the boat is we will share that bottle of wine and forget about the 100 usd you will need it to build your boat , boat building costs lots of money and time.
I would also like to make a bet with Gludy that his St Francis 50 will be heavier than 12500 kilo with all the "so called standard accessory's on board like the hard top bimini etc.

Greetings

Gideon
Butterfly is a 445 if i remember right. Extended sugarscoop...


Nordic Cat/Alan:

I found this at my thread looking for the right multihull in.......

The weight is 5800 kilo when she was lifted into the water without the rig
This cat has lots of options like airco, heating, solar panels, hard top bimini about 700 kilo,s worth including 40 hp engines a 4000 watt inverter charger, dishwasher etcReady to sail weight is 6400 kilo,s including water and diesel
Greetings and welcome back
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Old 16-09-2008, 13:42   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandy daugherty View Post
Shut this thread down. The Gideon Bashers and wannabe competitors have hijacked it.
No, I think now there is a lot of interest from many members to see the result of the bet as it will be of interest to all. Both parties seem to be confident in their wager, so let it run
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Old 16-09-2008, 13:45   #90
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weight of diesel engines

Gideon,
You state that the standard engines are 2 x 20 HP yet on your website the standard engines are 2 x 30 HP. What is it?
(by the way, I think 2 x 20HP on a 43' / 45' cat is a bit undersized)

I know you use Nanni diesel. This is from their site:

Nanni 21 HP 106 kg
Nanni 29 HP 145 kg
Nanni 40 HP 228 kg

By the way, if 'light' is an issue, the Yanmar 40HP is only 173 kg per unit and Yanmar has way more international service stations than Nanni diesel.

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