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Old 18-02-2013, 20:53   #16
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Re: Impressive Team USA Sailing

"Brogan you clearly have no idea what it takes to sail one of these boats"

Yup, clearly it takes a computer to trim/plot, a genny to power, and a billionaire to fund. Sure sounds like a real race to me....! Why not just call it for what it is...a demo for what unlimited funding can conceive and develope. Cool, but not a race.
Does nobody else miss the concept of sportsmanship....when skill, power & grit were the drivers.....not $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
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Old 18-02-2013, 20:56   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brogan007 View Post
"Brogan you clearly have no idea what it takes to sail one of these boats"

Yup, clearly it takes a computer to trim/plot, a genny to power, and a billionaire to fund. Sure sounds like a real race to me....! Why not just call it for what it is...a demo for what unlimited funding can conceive and develope. Cool, but not a race.
Does nobody else miss the concept of sportsmanship....when skill, power & grit were the drivers.....not $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
And when was that, the 1800's? Get real the Americas Cup has been fueled by money since the beginning of time.
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Old 18-02-2013, 23:05   #18
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Re: Impressive Team USA Sailing

Sure they have computers onboard, and winches. But unless you are suggesting that boats should get rid of winches and go back to capstans, or just block and tackle? Or are pullys too advanced for you? The only thing that could be considered computer controlled is the instruments.

I would refer you to rule 19 of the AC 72 class rules which state in part "Only manual power (the force exerted by crew) or the effect of direct contact with wind and/or water shall be used for the adjustment of rigging, wing, soft sails, rudders and daggerboards."

The only thing that stored power is allowed to operate is a bilge pump, but even there they are limited to 200L/min.
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Old 19-02-2013, 02:30   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brogan007
"Brogan you clearly have no idea what it takes to sail one of these boats"

Yup, clearly it takes a computer to trim/plot, a genny to power, and a billionaire to fund. Sure sounds like a real race to me....! Why not just call it for what it is...a demo for what unlimited funding can conceive and develope. Cool, but not a race.
Does nobody else miss the concept of sportsmanship....when skill, power & grit were the drivers.....not $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Yeah and the schooner America , was just a club racer !!!!!

It's been a playground for the rich since the very outset. Today's no different
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Old 19-02-2013, 07:21   #20
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Re: Impressive Team USA Sailing

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It's been a playground for the rich since the very outset. Today's no different
Dave
Yep, now its more corporate enterprises rather than individuals however i guess there might be some personal pushing from inside to involve the companies in an odd ball sport.

What i find odder is that the "America's Cup" is an international event when the "World Series" for baseball is pretty much US only.

you guys are really confusing
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Old 19-02-2013, 07:43   #21
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Re: Impressive Team USA Sailing

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Originally Posted by sparau View Post
Yep, now its more corporate enterprises rather than individuals however i guess there might be some personal pushing from inside to involve the companies in an odd ball sport.

What i find odder is that the "America's Cup" is an international event when the "World Series" for baseball is pretty much US only.

you guys are really confusing
Aren't we all? I'm sure you know that the cup is named after its first winner, "America", and not the continent though. As to baseball, ah, never mind. And I don't want to even talk about the Super Bowl of "football" where feet never touch the ball except when the converted futbol players come onto the field to do their thing.

I was at a dinner at the Herreshoff Museum in RI this weekend (a place not to miss for any in the region). The speaker is overseeing the build of a 1:6 model of Reliance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliance_(yacht) . Anyone who thinks this has ever been a sport for any but the super rich needs to do a little reading. Reliance sailed for one campaign only. In order to bring costs under control, the J-boat was specified for subsequent races. When Lipton pushed back against the smaller boats, the NYYC threatened to bring back Reliance. The pictures of her are breathtaking. The stats on crew (72) and amount of running and standing rigging were ridiculous.

As to the AC72; oh, to be young enough to try to get on board. Watching them race along the city front will be quite something.
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Old 20-02-2013, 21:30   #22
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Re: Impressive Team USA Sailing

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Originally Posted by Brogan007 View Post
Yup. That about sums up the whole ridiculous waste of space called the Americas Cup these days. Disgusting example of how a race where real men used to compete, can be hijacked by $$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Yeah, they should return to the good old days when an average working guy could enter his boat in the America's cup, and reasonably expect to win.

When was that by the way?
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Old 21-02-2013, 09:14   #23
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Re: Impressive Team USA Sailing

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Originally Posted by sparau View Post

What i find odder is that the "America's Cup" is an international event when the "World Series" for baseball is pretty much US only.

you guys are really confusing
Yep! Also we drive in Parkways, and park in driveways. We put cargo on ships and ship packages by car, as well, send freight by air.

So their they're there
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Old 25-02-2013, 06:27   #24
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Re: Impressive Team USA Sailing

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Aren't we all? I'm sure you know that the cup is named after its first winner, "America", and not the continent though.
ah, lol, i'll admit my ignorance there

however after research i'm not sure your argument has much weight anyway...

from americascup.com

Quote:
That day in August, 1851, the yacht America, representing the young New York Yacht Club, would go on to beat the best the British could offer and win the Royal Yacht Squadron’s 100 Pound Cup.
so someone went and won a year of an existing competition, took the cup home and...

Quote:
Shortly after America won the 100 Guinea Cup in 1851, New York Yacht Club Commodore John Cox Stevens and the rest of his ownership syndicate sold the celebrated schooner and returned home to New York as heroes. They donated the trophy to the New York Yacht Club under a Deed of Gift, which stated that the trophy was to be “a perpetual challenge cup for friendly competition between nations.”
decided to rename the competition "the americas cup".

this exercise has not helped my feelings of confusion
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Old 25-02-2013, 12:11   #25
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Re: Impressive Team USA Sailing

Sparau,

The original America was built by a commercial syndicate as a money making venture. At the time there were a lot of yacht races that had large cash prizes for the winners, instead of the plastic trinkets we give out these days (except my regatta, we give out beer steins and shot glasses).

The plan was to take a US designed schooner rigged pilot boat to compete in the races because the US pilot boats were thought to be faster and more sea-worthy than the British ships then racing.

The concept that the Americas cup has ever been about anything but large corperate syndicates, or the very wealth individuals, is just at odds with history.


Btw the cost of the original America in today's dollars would be about $6,000,000.
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Old 25-02-2013, 13:45   #26
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Re: Impressive Team USA Sailing

A lot of good videos on the Oracle AC boat in this issue of Latitude 38 online
Latitude 38 - 'Lectronic Latitude

Look like these boats are actually sailing on the winglets on the dagger boards and stop plate on the rudders on certain points of sail. Video shows the boat sailing with both hulls completely out of the water unless it's the spray from the dagger boat that is holding the hull up. Anyone heard what the top speed they are hoping to get out of these boats. If they can sail on the winglets for any length of time, it would seem that they'd exceed 50k.
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Old 25-02-2013, 15:22   #27
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Re: Impressive Team USA Sailing

Rover,

The hydrofoils are a big open question right now. They make the boats scary fast in heavy wind, but if there isn't enough breeze to lift the boat out of the water, then they just add huge amounts of drag. The difference is significant enough that they are considering allowing boats to use either boards and make the decision on the day of. Otherwise the AC will be won by whoever chooses correctly wether to use or not use them.

Expected top speeds for the 72' is something north of 40kn in perfect conditions, with light air speeds in the 2-3 times wind speed range. So in 8-10kn of breeze these boats could break 20kn easily.

The amazing thing to me is that unlike the AC 90's they are actually able to sail in almost any wind and wave conditions. With a required wind range of 3-30kn.
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Old 25-02-2013, 15:49   #28
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Re: Impressive Team USA Sailing

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Does this tri must have foils on the the keels????
Yep.

I was out last Friday trying to chase it down in the central bay. The boat comes very nearly to a stop every time it tacks or jibes, but when it gets up on those hydrofoils, it goes into warp speed.

What you don't get watching the video that becomes quite clear out on the water is the size of the crazy thing. That wing mast is as tall as a ten-story building.
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Old 28-02-2013, 11:08   #29
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Re: Impressive Team USA Sailing

These aren't even boats. It's an interesting display of technology, but I can't call it a "boat" race. It's not even in the water. And they're screwing up public perception of what what a multihull boat is.

Car racing doesn't interest me for the same reason. Those aren't "cars".
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Old 28-02-2013, 11:18   #30
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Re: Impressive Team USA Sailing

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Yeah, mainly Australian and Kiwi and a couple of yanks, with a dutchman and a frenchman thrown in.
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