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Old 15-01-2010, 16:12   #121
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Originally Posted by jpemb7 View Post
Yeah, I remember reading his book "Just Cruising".



2. You're supposed to pay GST on delivery costs, insurance, crews wages, port costs according to a commercial rate. How this plays out in reality I don't know but the cost is only minor compared to the overall purchase price. BTW this only comes into play if you use the purchase price for GST valuation.

We needed to pay for cost that have brought us to Australia. BUT. Only from our last port. Noumea (New Cal.). So I wrote 30 gallons gas, some food, and a couple more things. They didn't really ask very much about it. I think we ended up paying 50-100 AUD.

/Andreas
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Old 15-01-2010, 18:05   #122
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We needed to pay for cost that have brought us to Australia. BUT. Only from our last port. Noumea (New Cal.). So I wrote 30 gallons gas, some food, and a couple more things. They didn't really ask very much about it. I think we ended up paying 50-100 AUD.

/Andreas
This makes perfect sense to me. When I called customs and asked questions about this they quoted their web page back to me and when I asked if it was a self assessment type process I didn't really get a straight answer. But I think this is exactly what it is.
Customs give you a form to fill out and you write down what your costs are and they apply GST to it. You might get some official type who wants to go by the book. But in most cases they are going to accept what you write down, unless it is ridiculously low. So Andreas, you estimated your costs coming from Noumea at about $1000 and paid $100 GST. Sounds reasonable to me.
However,..
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Only from our last port. Noumea (New Cal.).
I was told it was the cost from where you bought the boat. Once again, you surprise me, Andreas. You must be an incredibly persuasive, likeable or lucky person.
I'll call up customs on Monday and see what the offical version is.

Thanks again, Andreas

Jim
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Old 15-01-2010, 19:02   #123
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Once again, you surprise me, Andreas. You must be an incredibly persuasive, likeable or lucky person.
I'll call up customs on Monday and see what the offical version is.

Jim
It strikes me Andreas is the kind of guy that expects things to be straight forward and simple, does what he can to keep it that way, and more often than not, that's how it turns out for him.
I've found when dealing with officialdom, the simpler you can make it for them, the more inclined they are to give you an easy time... unless his wife burned his porridge that morning...

Andreas. Want to do another trip across the South Pacific? Or if you've got one of those job/career things now, swim out to Noumea and I'll give you a lift back
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Old 16-01-2010, 03:54   #124
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Andreas. Want to do another trip across the South Pacific? Or if you've got one of those job/career things now, swim out to Noumea and I'll give you a lift back
Tempting but I think I'll wait a couple of years Starting up my business now so...yeah...I sort of starting my career now
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Old 17-01-2010, 18:44   #125
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Aust. Customs

Well, I rang up Customs today and the official version is that you have to pay GST on the cost of bringing the boat from the place of purchase. Andreas, the officer said that you just got lucky. By the way they will be contacting you for the rest of the money. (just kidding)
However, he conceded that he didnít know how they calculated the cost and suggested that when you fill out the form put in a believable amount. I quote, ď If you write down 10 bucks, theyíll question it.Ē

Jim
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Old 17-01-2010, 18:49   #126
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TAX AT POINT OF PURCHASE

This is something else to consider when you find the boat. I have gleaned this summary from forums, internet searches etc. Feel free to correct me.

The EU

The EU has Vat to deal with. If the boat is purchased vat paid, no problem. If vat is not paid then you have to export within 90 days (there are complications).
Is this enough time to purchase and prepare the boat ? Timing in terms of weather needs to be considered in the buying schedule.
Then there are visa restrictions again usually 90 days. Although, you might be able to get a longer visa in individual countries. Most of these issues are dealt with in the thread below.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f67/eu-importation-and-vat-35032.html

The U.S

This is really complicated. Every state has different rules. Some states have no sales tax but most range from 4 to 8% with a county surcharge, sometimes. In some states property tax may be applied. In some states you can avoid the tax if you export within a time period and in others the broker will hit you with the tax as soon as you buy the boat. If you are looking at a boat in the U.S ask about sales tax and property tax in that state.

BTW, Florida will give a non-resident tax exemption for 90 days which can be extended to 180 days ($ 425 ).

The link below and other links attached to it cover a fair bit of ground on the U.S situation.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f128/sales-tax-and-use-tax-what-the-35331.html

The Caribbean

My information is a bit sketchy. Iím still looking for threads etc. The problem is some places are linked to the U.S or Europe. Others are independent or have some kind of autonomy. Sometimes the website is not in English.
Brokerís site said BVI is sales tax free. Thatís it for me. If anyone else can add anything please do.

Jim
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Old 02-02-2010, 03:20   #127
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Can anyone tell me what the situation is in California? If I'm a foreigner, buy a boat there, de-register it, and re-register it as a foreign flag, how long can it stay in CA before taxes are due?
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Old 02-02-2010, 23:56   #128
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nickj

If you read this thread you know I am planning to do the same thing as you i.e Buy a boat in the U.S and sail it back to Aus. Sounds like you may have got an answer to your question on the thread below. However, I would check with the broker to find out what happens in practice and to ensure he is familiar with the law.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f57/buy-us-boat-de-register-register-in-own-country-how-long-can-it-stay-in-america-36004.html

The broker is usually the tax collector. So he will be on a timeline to report the sale and the exemption or pay the tax.

Sounds like you are ready to take the plunge. The Aussie dollar is still pretty strong. So your timing is good. What sort of boat are you looking at buying ?

Jim
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Old 03-02-2010, 04:09   #129
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nickj

If you read this thread you know I am planning to do the same thing as you i.e Buy a boat in the U.S and sail it back to Aus. Sounds like you may have got an answer to your question on the thread below. However, I would check with the broker to find out what happens in practice and to ensure he is familiar with the law.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f57/buy-us-boat-de-register-register-in-own-country-how-long-can-it-stay-in-america-36004.html

The broker is usually the tax collector. So he will be on a timeline to report the sale and the exemption or pay the tax.

Sounds like you are ready to take the plunge. The Aussie dollar is still pretty strong. So your timing is good. What sort of boat are you looking at buying ?

Jim
Hi Jim,

Yes, my plan is to buy a boat in the US, but not necessarily sail it back to Oz... I've just spent the last 2.5 years sailing back from the UK. My plan in the US is to buy a boat (which I've actually already done), because it is good geographically (for the areas I want to sail) and also the prices are better because it's a much larger market... I won't have the boat out within 90 days, so I guess I better pony up and pay the tax. You have to play by the rules sometimes...

But yeah, the Aussie dollar is up at the moment... Just hoping it stays strong till the 15th of Feb when the payment goes through!

My new boat is a 32ft double ender...
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Old 03-02-2010, 18:17   #130
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I was told it was the cost from where you bought the boat. Once again, you surprise me, Andreas. You must be an incredibly persuasive, likeable or lucky person.
I'll call up customs on Monday and see what the offical version is.

Thanks again, Andreas

Jim
There is a bit of misinformation in this thread... Having just gone through this process three months ago, this is what happens:

You arrive at an Australian port having come from an international harbour. The cost of entry is $330 for customs. You can pay on credit card. They will ask how much you spent to get from your last international port to Australia... The costs are minimal since you are stuck at sea eating soggy biscuits, so just calculate a few hundred dollars in food...

There is then a $139 charge for AQIS to do an inspection of the boat. They will come onboard, take photos, ask where you sailed, and then pass the information on to an entomologist. If there is wood onboard, chances are you will be asked for a termite inspection. Thankfully the termi-dog is no longer the only option... As it is super $$. If you are required to do a termite inspection, you can call around and get any pest control company that does thermal imaging (for houses etc) to come by the boat and do the work. It is about $180-280 for that. Hopefully there are no termites, otherwise the boat must be chemically 'bombed' at great expense and you wouldn't ever want to eat off your plates again...

If you plan to import your boat, you will need a customs broker. Unless you have great patience and an eye for legalese... They cost about $400 and can do the GST/Duty process in about two days. They'll handle the AQIS stuff above also.

The calculation for GST/Duty is based on the bill of sale price of the boat. So, lets say you bought in American dollars... The conversion to Australian dollars will be taken from the date at which you 'started your voyage to Australia' - This is NOT America... It is from your last international port... Say, Noumea, or, somewhere in Fiji, etc. If the boat is NOT American (free trade agreement etc), then you will be liable for 5% duty on top of bill-of-sale-price+GST.

If importing a boat, and you wish to register it as Australian vessel, you will also require a builders certificate, bill of sale from country of origin, and proof of citizenship. The only roadblock here is the build certificate. However, if the boat builder is no longer in business (strangely, few seem to avoid bankruptcy!), you can have a local shipwright fill out the builders certificate, and you can then get a stat dec to say it is legit. The cost of registration with AMSA is $799.

Hope that helps. I just had quarantine/AQIS on my boat today... I'm going through the thermal imaging process as we speak.
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Old 04-02-2010, 01:04   #131
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Thanks NickJ
Quote:
This is NOT America... It is from your last international port... Say, Noumea, or, somewhere in Fiji, etc.
I don't know what to make of this. I rang up customs thrice and they told me it was the travel costs from the country of purchase. Maybe its a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.

So I take it the boat you brought from the U.K was British registered when you arrived in Australia and do you have dual nationality ? I only ask because maybe they treat a foreign registered vessel imported by a "foreigner" differently. Or maybe, using a customs agent makes the difference.

So you paid GST/ import duty on the purchase price. Did they question the time it took to bring the boat to Australia ?

I appreciate your replies. It is great to get first hand knowledge. And it sounds as though the "real experience" may be less expensive (customs/ Gst) than I think.

Jim

P.s I've always liked double enders. The water flows nicely past the boat. Has it got a real traditional look ?
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Old 10-02-2010, 03:43   #132
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Thanks NickJ
I don't know what to make of this. I rang up customs thrice and they told me it was the travel costs from the country of purchase. Maybe its a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.
I wouldn't bother ringing up customs, they won't know what's going on. I would recommend calling someone who actually deals with this stuff, perhaps Peters & May, or some kind of specialist boat broker. I mean, it doesn't really make sense to say it's from the country of purchase... How can they prove you were not just sailing around the south pacific, and then decided to stop and import your boat into Australia. Importation begins from your last international port...


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So I take it the boat you brought from the U.K was British registered when you arrived in Australia and do you have dual nationality ? I only ask because maybe they treat a foreign registered vessel imported by a "foreigner" differently. Or maybe, using a customs agent makes the difference.
Yes, UK registered. I do have dual nationality, but it wasn't taken into account. In fact, no one at customs knew of my dual nationality, I just took out my Australian passport. If you are an Australian, you must import the boat immediately.

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So you paid GST/ import duty on the purchase price. Did they question the time it took to bring the boat to Australia ?
Yes, correct, with the currency conversion done at the time the boat left the last international port.

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I appreciate your replies. It is great to get first hand knowledge. And it sounds as though the "real experience" may be less expensive (customs/ Gst) than I think.
Potentially. I don't think it's really a money spinner unless you're incredibly boat savvy, have cash sitting there ready to go, and are in the right place at the right time. Boats on Yachtworld.com are not really indicative of what's available... The good deals are found while doing the 'yard walk' around boat stands while talking to Roger who is a friend of Bob, who's cousin is selling a cruising boat in some backwater in Oregon...
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Old 10-02-2010, 18:09   #133
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This discussion is very helpful. thank you.

Can you tell me the answer to this question.

I understand that Customs calculates the GST (and luxury tax) inclusive of the costs from your last international port.

Let's just suppose you were shipping a boat from Genoa (cost of shipping say $50,000). you could have the delivery to Sydney or to Auckland.

If delivery to Auckland I am able to leave Auckland to sail across to Sydney within two weeks.

That would save $5000 or so in GST? correct ?

On the other hand there will be customs costs in both NZ and Australia I guess.
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Old 11-02-2010, 01:50   #134
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I can't answer your question with any confidence. Mainly because there seems to be no consistency between what Customs say and what they do. However, reading the NZ customs website, it should be possible to temporarily import the boat to NZ (12 months) and then sail (export) to Australia. I don't see how there would be a difference between sailing and shipping the boat for customs purposes. Details below:
http://www.customs.govt.nz/importers/Private+importers/Temporary+Imports.htm

In this situation you should avoid NZ tax (import/GST) and like nickj pay GST on costs from New Zealand when you arrive in Australia (touch wood) - which would be a lot less.
Normally, you would think NZ and Australia would be a wake up to this and maybe they are. But i wonder if it happens so rarely that they just don't care.
You won't know until you try it. You could email NZ Customs and confirm the temporary import issue.
If you wanted to cruise the Bay of Islands before returning to Australia then I would think you could argue that this was a legitimate enterprise. Would there be much of a saving given the cost of preparing the boat for a Tasman crossing and associated outlays ?
IMO, i think it would be great to cruise New Zealand for 12 months before returning to Australia and if it saved you some money, then all the better.

There might be some Kiwis out there who have some first hand knowledge.

Good luck

Jim

p.s Would 2 weeks be long enough to prepare the boat and crew for a Tasman crossing ?
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Old 14-03-2010, 20:55   #135
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Exchange rates

One interesting issue that might arise is exchange rates in calculating GST etc.

Say you buy when the AUD is strong against the USD so that the price is very favourable and then the AUD falls (or the USD rises) on the date you import so that the price woudl appear more in AUD terms.

Surely what you actually paid in AUD is the basis?
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