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Old 26-08-2011, 16:37   #676
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Re: Importing a Boat to Australia

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Originally Posted by TrevC View Post
meyermm is right. I've never heard of customs assessing the value (at least for friends importing or bringing over vessels), and they certainly didn't on ours. If your paperwork seems reasonable they won't cause you trouble.

I wonder how many people in this thread have imported boats?


Definitley, it all depends on the quality of your paperwork. For our 1999 Dufour 43 that was French registered in Guadeloupe, we had French export papers as well as the bill of sail from the French company we bought her from; all very ligit. Even though the sail price was well below (half the price) of Australian 'value'.

We got a bargain on this vessel because the French company had 10 -12 of them in charter with SunSail in the Caribbean and needed to dump them all for tax reasons... when I was negotiating to buy this vessel in late 2002 I thought it was suss and too good to be true, but it was all legit. I even had a choice between 2 or 3 of the same boat.
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Old 26-08-2011, 16:46   #677
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Re: Importing a Boat to Australia

My yacht is uk flagged i am an aussie on a oz passport have been back to oz twice i was told on last occasion that yacht had to leave oz waters with in 18months or then i had to import as for immigration i have only had hassle in one state ( i am from vic/ and had no probs there ) and will not enter that state again from international waters and i will let you all have one guess which state that is
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Old 26-08-2011, 17:09   #678
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Re: Importing a Boat to Australia

I recently went through the same pricing exercise establishing a fair offer price for a BAV40 already in Australia. I can confirm the thoughts of others here that when one factors all the costs of happily landing the boat in Australia - even without the "Hassle Certainties" and the rule about "Unintended Consequences" - the costs appear acceptably similar.

When one adds factors of remote survey and purchase, export and delivery risks, and the like... one begins to develop a better appreciation for the Australian prices.

I also imagined the exchange rate at the time of the original purchase of a yacht in Oz a few years ago and other countries' prices now might have Aussie owners living in a NeverNeverLand of value expectations. However, I discounted that argument accordingly.

Concepts such as: "Caveat Emptor", "There ain't no free lunch", and the host of other sage advice about purchasing remain valid.

Bottom Line - If you are a well-equipped and knowledgeable skipper with a good eye and lots of time and you're willing to take risks and love adventures - you may find 'bargains' around the world. If good fortune favours you - you may get the boat to Australia successfully. Otherwise, build a good case for a reasonable vendor discount on a similar boat in Australia and enjoy it.
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Old 26-08-2011, 17:28   #679
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Re: Importing a Boat to Australia

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When one adds factors of remote survey and purchase, export and delivery risks, and the like... one begins to develop a better appreciation for the Australian prices.
If your unable to spend the time overseas finding the boat, being on hand while survey is carried out and sailing the boat back I would agree. You obviously did not have the time or confidence to take it on. It is not as hard as many make out as long as you take time and use common sense at all times, sometimes hard to achieve. As for price comparison you will find the bigger the boat the cheaper they become overseas relative to Australia. So at around 30 to 35ft no point but say 40 to 50ft it becomes much better and as this is the length most would look at for cross ocean cruising it is much cheaper. If you read many of the posts it becomes obvious that personnal circumstances have a big bearing on perspective. Example: Recently a poster who was looking for boat said that modern plastic (his words) did nothing for him and preferred older style boats. Later it came to light that his price range was $50.000 to $60.000 so it was obvious that his financial position was the influence more than the style boat would you not think. Have not seen to many plastic boats Jenn, Benn, Bav around that money in any part of the world.
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Old 26-08-2011, 18:28   #680
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Re: Importing a Boat to Australia

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Originally Posted by beneteau-500 View Post
My yacht is uk flagged i am an aussie on a oz passport have been back to oz twice i was told on last occasion that yacht had to leave oz waters with in 18months or then i had to import as for immigration i have only had hassle in one state ( i am from vic/ and had no probs there ) and will not enter that state again from international waters and i will let you all have one guess which state that is
Very interesting.

Your actual experience seems to be contrary to many other posts here, presumably because they haven't tried what you have done, so they tend to think their way is the only way.

Just a few of questions...

Do you have Aus residency at the moment? Things such as a drivers licence with a physical address etc?

When you leave Aus waters, within the 18 months, is there a period of time needing to pass before you can come back again, presumably for another time limited cruising permit?

And can I presume NSW to be the hassle state?
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Old 26-08-2011, 18:48   #681
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Re: Importing a Boat to Australia

"Your actual experience seems to be contrary to many other posts here, presumably because they haven't tried what you have done, so they tend to think their way is the only way."

If you read most of the posts you will have noticed that many of the posters have looked into the laws and regulations pertaining to the subject or worked in that area.
If someone circumvents those laws and gets away with it does not mean this is the way to go. To register the boat in UK another poster pointed out a UK address would be required and I suspect maybe some kind of Euro passport or company. So while someone may have gotten away with it does not mean it is recommended or just not the way others have gone about it.
One point I have noticed on subjects like this is you never hear from the ones that got caught and ended up paying thousands of dollars in fines or forfeited the boat as they were unable to pay do we.
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Old 26-08-2011, 18:49   #682
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Re: Importing a Boat to Australia

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Originally Posted by beneteau-500 View Post
My yacht is uk flagged i am an aussie on a oz passport have been back to oz twice i was told on last occasion that yacht had to leave oz waters with in 18months or then i had to import as for immigration i have only had hassle in one state ( i am from vic/ and had no probs there ) and will not enter that state again from international waters and i will let you all have one guess which state that is
Not QLD I hope?

Quote:
Your actual experience seems to be contrary to many other posts here, presumably because they haven't tried what you have done, so they tend to think their way is the only way.
When it comes to credibility I will believe someone who has actually done it, and the numbers are mounting.

Quote:
One point I have noticed on subjects like this is you never hear from the ones that got caught and ended up paying thousands of dollars in fines or forfeited the boat as they were unable to pay do we.
Maybe because it doesn't happen just because you flew the UK flag? Stop twisting this around. I said I would pay all fees on entry. Pretty much everyone is wanting to do this just so save time and money on the AU registration. Not to scam the gov out of the duty and GST.

Quote:
If you read most of the posts you will have noticed that many of the posters have looked into the laws and regulations pertaining to the subject or worked in that area.
Wotname quoted a lot if info regarding leaving the country without AU registration if the boat is AU owned. I did not see anything regarding the entry into the country. The worst I can see happening is that they make you pay the duty and gst, which I am planning on doing. Surfer girl said that if your paper work is not in check you could have troubles in any international port. Well it won't matter what country the boat is flagged under if you have not done the paper work right. You would obviously not register under the UK, then fly the Aussie flag etc. As mentioned delivery captains don't register their boat in the name of the county of their residency. However Nikki has UK citizenship so this seems like a no brainier, she can enter under her passport.
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Old 26-08-2011, 19:17   #683
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Re: Importing a Boat to Australia

Way to go, Dennis!!

UK rego requires the owner to be Commonwealth citizen. Australia is still part of the Commonwealth so an Aussie can do it.
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Old 26-08-2011, 19:24   #684
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Re: Importing a Boat to Australia

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Way to go, Dennis!!

UK rego requires the owner to be Commonwealth citizen. Australia is still part of the Commonwealth so an Aussie can do it.
That makes it even more legit. But since the boat will be both mine and Nikki's, we may as well just put it in her name I think.
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Old 26-08-2011, 19:43   #685
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Re: Importing a Boat to Australia

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
.........

If you want to do it by the book, here is the link to the only book that matters.

Shipping Registration Act 1981
Quote:
Originally Posted by dennisail View Post
.........


Wotname quoted a lot if info regarding leaving the country without AU registration if the boat is AU owned. I did not see anything regarding the entry into the country. The worst I can see happening is that they make you pay the duty and gst, which I am planning on doing.
Well yes I did quote part of the act regarding departing in reference to registration requirements but I also linked the the full act for the benefit of a reference to all matters.

Have a read of the act, it is reasonably clear english (no harder than some CF posts )

Try section 8, 12, 13 & 14 first but look at all of it to get the full picture.

I am no lawyer, but it seems to me that under section 13, there is no requirement for an Australian to register their recreational vessels while the vessel is outside of Australia while other sections indicate it is required.

What is 100% clear is that to depart Australia, ANY Australia owned vessel must be Australian registered. The act also describes what constitutes ownership.

What is also clear from many others who have posted here and or similar threads, is that they have been advised to have Australia registration before entering Australian waters. I have not been able to find a black or white reference in the act one way or the other but I if I going to challenge advice from government departments (AMSA, Customs etc), I would be inclined to get some marine specific legal advice rather than rely on some internet advice of someone who "may have done a dodgy" and got away with it.

However, lets not forget that importing a boat into Australia also comes under parts of the Quarantine Act, Customs Act, GST Act and probably a few others and not just the "Internet Information Act"

Which is why I guess some of the posters used an agent!

For the record, I have not imported a boat into Australia, I do have a interest (private) in the shipping act and to a lesser degree also the quarantine act.

But as in these matters, enjoy your adventure
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Old 26-08-2011, 19:54   #686
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Re: Importing a Boat to Australia

Good post Wotname.
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Old 26-08-2011, 19:57   #687
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Re: Importing a Boat to Australia

You're welcome
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Old 26-08-2011, 19:59   #688
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Re: Importing a Boat to Australia

8 Australian‑owned ships

(1) A reference in this Act to an Australian‑owned ship shall be read as a reference to a ship that:
(a) is owned by an Australian national or Australian nationals, and by no other person;
(b) is owned (otherwise than as described in paragraph (c)) by 3 or more persons as joint owners, where the majority of those persons are Australian nationals; or
(c) is owned by 2 or more persons as owners in common, where more than half of the shares in the ship are owned by an Australian national or Australian nationals.
(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1)(c), where 2 or more persons are joint owners of a share or shares in a ship:
(a) in the case of 2 or more particular shares that are owned by the same persons—the interest of each owner in the shares shall be ascertained by dividing the number of the shares by the number of the owners of the shares; and
(b) in the case of a share to which paragraph (a) does not apply—the interest of each owner in the share shall be ascertained by dividing the number one by the number of the owners of the share;
and, if the sum of the interests so ascertained in respect of all jointly‑owned shares in the ship as being interests of an Australian national or Australian nationals is a whole number or a whole number and a fraction, such number of those shares as is equal to that whole number shall be deemed to be owned by an Australian national or Australian nationals


Part II—Registration of Ships

Division 1—Registration

12 Obligation to register Australian‑owned ships
(1) Subject to this Part, every Australian‑owned ship shall be registered under this Act.
(2) Where an Australian‑owned ship is operated by a foreign resident under a demise charter, the Authority may, by instrument in writing, exempt the ship during the term of the charter from the requirement to be registered.
(3) Where a ship required to be registered is not registered, the owner of the ship is, in respect of each day on which the ship remains unregistered (including the day of a conviction for an offence against this subsection or any subsequent day), guilty of an offence, and, whether or not proceedings are instituted for such an offence, the ship may be detained until registration is effected.
(3A) An offence under subsection (3) is an offence of strict liability.
Note: For strict liability, see section 6.1 of the Criminal Code.
(4) It is not a defence to a prosecution under subsection (3) that the ship required to be registered is registered under the law of a foreign country.

13 Exemptions from registration
Ships less than 24 metres in tonnage length, Government ships, fishing vessels and pleasure craft are exempt from the requirement to be registered under section 12.


14 Ships permitted to be registered
Where application is made as provided by this Act, the following ships shall be registered:
(a) Australian‑owned ships referred to in section 13;
(b) small craft wholly owned by residents of Australia or by residents of Australia and Australian nationals;
(c) small craft operated solely by residents of Australia or Australian nationals or both;
(d) ships on demise charter to Australian‑based operators.

15 Application for registration
Subject to this Part, an application for the registration of a ship shall be made in accordance with the regulations.
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Old 26-08-2011, 20:04   #689
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Re: Importing a Boat to Australia

So to me that says if your ship has a requirement to be registered you will be in trouble if it is registered in another countries name. But since our ships are less than 24M and/or pleasure craft we are exempt.
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Old 26-08-2011, 20:39   #690
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Re: Importing a Boat to Australia

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So to me that says if your ship has a requirement to be registered you will be in trouble if it is registered in another countries name. But since our ships are less than 24M and/or pleasure craft we are exempt.

That is my reading while the pleasure craft is outside Australia or inside Australia.

However the gray bit is transitioning from international waters to entering an Australia entry port.

It is fairly clear that the vessel should be registered somewhere but does it have to be Australia. I can't find a clear reference yet in the acts but perhaps I am looking in the wrong ones, it may be in a completely different act. Certainly AMSA seem suggest it has to be Australian but perhaps they haven't been asked the right questions. Also they would only give advice that they know for certain is accurate and there may be other equally legal ways to achieve the same result that they could not comment on.

At the end of the day, if you ever want to depart to a foreign port and it is Auzzie owned, you have no choice but Auzzie registration.

Interestingly the act also covers Australia citizens in charge of (but not owners of) unregistered vessels in international waters - but this is thread drift
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