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Old 28-12-2007, 17:13   #46
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Originally Posted by Nauticatarcher View Post
There is no sales tax on secondhand boat sales in Australia
"This can't be true in all cases. I am a resident US citizen in Singapore and I definitely own a foreign registered (Singapore) boat."
This might be OK if your'e just using it in Singapore but what happens if you want to sail it internationally?

I sail into Malaysia all the time.
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Old 28-12-2007, 18:56   #47
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Thanks for bringing that point up. I checked with the Californian Yacht Brokers Association and they stated that as a non-citizen I could still purchase and sail out a US registered vessel...or register it as an OZ boat...depending on which tax strategy was more favourable to me.....

cheers
Here is an extract from the Australian Maritime Safety Authority's web site on Ships registration,
Ability to sail overseas
  • It is an offence for an Australian-owned vessel to sail for a foreign port unless it is registered in the Australian Register of Ships.
  • Note: vessels purchased overseas by Australians are also required to be registered before they sail for Australia or another foreign country.
it wouldl pay you to read it and also contact them, Yacht Brokers will tell you anything to make a sale
Brochure - Yachts, Cruisers and Fishing Boats
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Old 29-12-2007, 04:15   #48
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Confusing!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nauticatarcher View Post
Here is an extract from the Australian Maritime Safety Authority's web site on Ships registration,
Ability to sail overseas
  • It is an offence for an Australian-owned vessel to sail for a foreign port unless it is registered in the Australian Register of Ships.
  • Note: vessels purchased overseas by Australians are also required to be registered before they sail for Australia or another foreign country.
it wouldl pay you to read it and also contact them, Yacht Brokers will tell you anything to make a sale
Brochure - Yachts, Cruisers and Fishing Boats
Yeh I read that on the ACS web site but I also read "Why register a yacht, cruiser or fishing boat?Although such vessels are not required by law to be registered,":
SO then I went to the Act itself and then found this:

Shipping Registration Act 1981
S13 Exemptions from registration
Ships less than 24 metres in tonnage length, Government ships,
fishing vessels and pleasure craft are exempt from the requirement
to be registered under section 12.

lol...I think I will ring them on Monday....

cheers
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Old 29-12-2007, 05:09   #49
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Originally Posted by Wojo View Post
Yeh I read that on the ACS web site but I also read "Why register a yacht, cruiser or fishing boat?Although such vessels are not required by law to be registered,":
SO then I went to the Act itself and then found this:

Shipping Registration Act 1981
S13 Exemptions from registration
Ships less than 24 metres in tonnage length, Government ships,
fishing vessels and pleasure craft are exempt from the requirement
to be registered under section 12.

lol...I think I will ring them on Monday....

cheers
That is interesting indeed!! Thanks for the heads up. Also, I would be keen to hear how the call went. cheers!!
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Old 29-12-2007, 11:25   #50
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Shipping Registration Act 1981
S13 Exemptions from registration
Ships less than 24 metres in tonnage length, Government ships,
fishing vessels and pleasure craft are exempt from the requirement
to be registered under section 12.

lol...I think I will ring them on Monday....

cheers[/quote]
This applys to vessels in Australian waters if travelling overseas vessel must be registered
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Old 29-12-2007, 18:18   #51
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Heres some info about US Coastguard registration, you have to be a US Citizen to hold it, so your brokers advice is wrong
What is Coast Guard Documentation? What is coast guard documentation? What are the advantages of coast guard documentation? Can anyone document their boat? What boats can be documented? Who can a Coast Guard Documentation process do for me?

What is Coast Guard Documentation?
US Coast Guard documentation is a federal form of boat registration controlled, monitored, and completed by the United States Coast Guard. When a vessel is registered with the Coast Guard it is given an official document number which remains with the boat, permanently displayed on an interior part of the hull. The issuance of the document number begins the Coast Guard history of the vessel. All future transactions are recorded and appear on the Abstract of Title produced by the Coast Guard.

What are the advantages of Coast Guard Documentation?
US Coast Guard documentation provides a history and record of build and ownership for the vessel owner. This history is maintained at the Coast Guard and is provided upon request in the form of an Abstract of Title, reflecting all recorded ownership transfers, mortgage recordings, claims of lien and releases. This allows a boater to sell his boat, and a buyer to buy that boat, and be assured it is free and clear of all recorded liens and encumbrances. When Financing Your boat, lenders rely on the USCG records of documented vessels to confirm their security interest will be perfected by a First Preferred Ship Mortgage recorded with the Coast Guard.
Boaters cruising in international waters often prefer federal documentation to attain certain protections afforded by the US flag, which include aid from the US consulate when you are in need. Foreign port officials easily recognize federally documented vessels and appreciate that the ownership is supported by a detailed Abstract of Title reflecting all recordings.

Can anyone document their boat?
No, you must be a US citizen or naturalized citizen to document your boat with the US Coast Guard. If the owner of the vessel is an entity, that entity must be owned by citizens of the US as well.

What boats can be documented?
Generally boats that are in excess of 26' can have a Coast Guard Documentation performed. The Coast Guard has developed a measurement formula that determines gross and net tonnage using the length, breadth, and depth of the vessel, and those boats with a measurement of 5 net tons or more can be documented. There are no further restrictions for pleasure boats operating under a recreational endorsement, however vessels operating in the commercial trade must be built in the United States.

Who can a Coast Guard Documentation process do for me?
There are many marine documentation agencies across the US that can handle the transaction for you.
Your lender, yacht broker, or dealer may refer you to a specialist in their area, or you may contact the American Vessel Documentation Association (AVDA) at 888-832-2832 for a list of those near you. Or visit their web site at American Vessel Documentation Association US Coast Guard Boat Registration Pleasure Boats Title Commercial Fishing Vessels titling lien clearance mortgage.




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Old 29-12-2007, 19:31   #52
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There are no further restrictions for pleasure boats operating under a recreational endorsement, however vessels operating in the commercial trade must be built in the United States.




HUH!
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Old 04-01-2008, 21:07   #53
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Haul Out fees

I don't know if I'm getting touched here but I got quoted US$480 for a haulout of a 40 foot sloop in southern California....... Is that about normal??????
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Old 04-01-2008, 22:36   #54
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Currency exchange has a HUGE impact on the price of one market versus another (I'm assuming that you're looking at Euros & Aussie Dollars and not US$). I'd suggest looking in south Florida, as the Aussie Dollar is really strong right now against the American dollar and our residential real estate crash here has resulted in some deals to be had on the market. Also, an American made boat would qualify for the AUSFTA customs treatment, and you wouldn't take the hit on the import duties if you bought here and sailed back to Oz. Would have to do a new shorepower system, but that would be the biggest hit.
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Old 04-01-2008, 23:25   #55
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As has been said before ,Australian boats must be registered before they go offshore (and of course, return). There has to be certain proof of ownership and other statistical details. AND the paying of a horendous amount of money. Whilst not needing Australian registration if sailing in Australian waters, the vessel must still be registed in its "berth" state. This is less painfull dollar wise but an annual fee....as an aside, just a reminder.....all boats traveling more than 12 nautical miles of the coast of Australia must carry an EPIRB.
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Old 06-01-2008, 23:42   #56
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Yacht Registration

OK, I contact the Maritime Safety Queensland in relation to vessel registration. I told her I was buying a US vessel in California and what should I do. She replied with the following.
"sail the boat back to Australia and then you have 14 days to register the boat here"

I then asked her about sailing to foreign ports from the US and that I had seen some legislation that stated the vessel had to be an Australian registered boat or else it would be an offence." To which she replied .."nope not in my case and that once I was back I had 14 days to change."

I'm tending to think there are national registration and state registration. The way I read it,if the boat is registered with Californian rego that's fine but if it's registered with the USCG then I have to change it to the local rego ,so, as a foreign citizen, I can sail it out of the US. I therefore can visit ports as a non citizen with a Californian boat that gets registered once I arrive in Qld.

Talk about drama.........
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Old 07-01-2008, 00:06   #57
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State registration has nothing to do with offshore travel, you need to speak to Australian Maritime Safety Authority in Canberra, even once you arrive back in Australia with an Australian registered vessel you will still have to register it in the state you keep it
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Old 07-01-2008, 00:21   #58
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Well I have emailed amsa regarding this but if they are as slow as they normally are with issueing our certificates for shipping then it could be a long wait. typical govt department.
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Old 07-01-2008, 01:27   #59
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OK, I contact the Maritime Safety Queensland in relation to vessel registration. ..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wojo View Post
Talk about drama.........


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nauticatarcher View Post
State registration has nothing to do with offshore travel,


Nauticatarcher is correct.

Look, this OS registration stuff is a drama, but you must make sure you jump right into the drama because if your vessel is unregistered and you are forced to stop anywhere your boat must be impounded. It goes back to the archaic Admiralty Law that every ship must show a flag or be blown out of the water. And, weirdly to some, all countries take is very seriously.

So, if you buy a boat in California to sail direct to Brisbane you will be in deep trouble with Australian customs who will impound it and either burn it or auction it. Probably they will be nice and charge you the full gst (on the likely price you will sell it for) and capital gains tax as they think you are buying it to sell in Aus.
Or if on the way back, direct from US to Aus you need to do a dunny break in Hawaii or any island to dump off a seasick (and belligerent backpacker) you lose your boat for now and forever! Or get stuck in some hell hole doing paperwork when everyone hates your guts and your file sits at the bottom of the inbox. Like don't try and pull an Australian flag out in Solomon Islands! They hate us and would love to impound an aussie boat.

There is a very clear set of guidelines in registering a boat when you buy it overseas. Its going to take at least a month after you have actually bought your boat to get your paperwork through because after your application has gone in you need to send by snail mail photos of the name and registration painted on the back of your boat. then they send a letter back by snail mail confirming it all. Of course you can not do the painting till you have already totally completed the foreign transaction and been given the keys to your new boat - and will cost you another haul out to paint on the words! Dinghy art not accepted!

You really have to get in and research all this stuff because if it was easy every man and his dog would be doing it. Why arn't they doing it? Because its such a hassle its just not worth it.

Now for a brighter finish to this long winded post. there is a lovely guy at AMSA who will tell you exactly what I have told you (but without my dramatics!) his number is:
Customer assistance

Telephone (02) 6279 5921 (International 61-2-6279 5921)

The AMSA website with the registration info is http://www.amsa.gov.au/Shipping_Registration/Guides/Registering_a_Ship.asp

Over the whole process of buying a boat offshore and selling it in Australia, after tax, you will probably pull a $20k profit. Not bad money. But you can only do it once a year and every so often stuff it up and lose money. So think of that... its a lot of work to be paid only $20k per year!




Mark

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Old 07-01-2008, 03:23   #60
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Why I say "drama", is because you can usually find a reference somewhere or find guidelines in some place. AMSB will get a call tomorrow for sure. I know what you guys are saying and you are correct when you say it's not easy....I wasn't too convinced with MSQ's response to my question but she was very sure of it. I have a friend that has bought a 42 footer out of the British Virgin Islands, with US flag and he is an Australian and he is sailing under the boats original rego......Stay tuned

P.S thanks guys for your interest. I am using the information you have given me so you are not wasting your breath...cheers
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