Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 5 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 26-10-2010, 16:38   #256
Registered User
 
Ozbullwinkle's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Caringbah, Sydney, Australia
Boat: Farr 44 Ocean Racer - Pit crew & backup helm.
Posts: 602
Images: 16
Does anyone know if Customs or any other government agency like the Bureau of Statistics publishes details of second hand boats that have been imported into Australia?

With the current conditions there is no doubt that a lot would be coming in. I would be interested to read details of what types of boats have been arriving. Anyone know where such information can be found?
__________________

__________________
Ozbullwinkle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2010, 17:36   #257
Registered User

Join Date: May 2007
Location: New Zealand
Boat: Trismus 37
Posts: 760
It might be of interest to read the latest info on <www.thecoastalpassage.com> regarding the importation of wooden vessels or those vessels that have substantial amounts of wood in their interior or wooden masts etc, this includes returning Australian vessels that have spent more than 3 months in any of a large range of areas including anywhere north of Aus through to the Indian ocean etc. etc. The costs and apparently open ended bureaucratic interpretations of this new (contentious) legislation might give you pause for thought.
__________________

__________________
Steve Pope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2010, 19:05   #258
Registered User
 
SimonV's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 1,316
Quote:
Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond View Post
If he had bought the boat in Aus in 1998, he would have paid no gst because it was not in existence. If he had sailed out of Aus and been away for 12 years... he would not be hit for gst coming back now.

Should he be hit with a tax that didn't exist when the transaction took place?

I'll ring the ATO and report back... if I can get some logic out of them!
Improting a boat into Oz, Pre 2000 was a lot more expensive then it is now with GST. As I have mentiond in one of my earlier posts, I managed to have all the cost worked from my last port of call which was Vanuatu and that included the exchange rate from Us $ to Au $. When I get my next boat I will have the bill of sale drawn up in Au $ as the Customes office tried to do the conversion with the dollar status on the day they recived my forms. If you are Polite, ask for help on how best to finish the import, speak with them in person and dont dress like a dag you will be happy in the end. As for the cost of sailing back to Oz they were not that interested, only in the price/value payed.
__________________
Simon

https://svgoodonya.blogspot.com.au/
SimonV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2010, 19:44   #259
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Boat: Able 50
Posts: 3,055
Quote:
Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond View Post
Well here's a tricky one to ponder... in the end it will take a call to the ATO and even then I suspect the answer could vary depending who you get...

I know a guy who bought a boat in the Med in 1998. He is an Aussie citizen and resident. He registered it here with AMSA in 1998 so has sailed under an Aussie flag, in the Med, since then.

He is considering sailing his boat back to Australia.
Now, he has owned it since before GST was introduced in 2000.
So, can he be hit for GST when he brings it in to Aus, or just the 5% duty?

Opinions?

Still not tricky. The operative event is importation not purchase so pay he must.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/c...402/s13.5.html
__________________
savoir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2010, 19:53   #260
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Boat: Able 50
Posts: 3,055
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordgeoff View Post
Not quite correct Savoir. The calculation of the GST is the value of the Bill of Sale OR an Australian valuation demanded by Customs. Once the value of the hull is determined then the duty is 5%. The GST is then calculated by the value of the hull plus 5% PLUS the estimated costs of getting the boat back to Australia. This would include Dockwise or similar but even if sailed back by the owner Customs will say that the expense of getting the boat back is $25,000 or $30,000 so the tax base for paying GST is
Hull Value Plus 5% Duty Plus the determined costs associated with getting the boat back THEN it is as you say SAVOIR 10% of this value. As I say there are some tricks. Customs will also look at the exchange rate used to convert to Australian Dollars. If the boats was purchased more than a year previous then Customs will want a cuerrent valuation of the boat in Australia THEN Customs will do the currency conversion based on when the boat entered Australian waters. This may or may not work in your favour. Oh and the thing to keep front of mind is Customs make it up as they go along and you will get a different story depending on whether you are talking to Sydney, Coffs or Brisbane Customs.
As I said a few tricks with taxes and it is best to pay a Customs Broker $500 to go and bat for you.

Where in my post do I define 10% as you suggest ? Maybe you can see it but I sure can't.
__________________
savoir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2010, 21:44   #261
Registered User
 
Atlantic42's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Alameda, California
Boat: Chris White Atlantic 42
Posts: 104
Images: 17
Importing my boat in to Australia was really pretty simple and fast and less expensive than expected. I had a local surveyor perform a valuation for customs purposes. I was not asked to pay GST on transit costs beyond my voyage from Vanuatu. I completed the process that included a termite sniffing dog (AU $800) and pretty simple paperwork all on my own without an agent. In entirety the process took me about about 30 days. In 2008, Bundaberg in Queensland seemed to have a reputation of friendly staff and quick turn around. That certainly was my experience. If your intent is to sell the boat when you arrive in AU then be advised to ensure the sale occurs after the importation is complete. Otherwise, you could be on the hook for a GST valuation based on actual sales price.
__________________
David Kane
www.dksail.com
Atlantic42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2010, 21:53   #262
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Mediterranean
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 50
Posts: 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by savoir View Post
Still not tricky. The operative event is importation not purchase so pay he must.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/c...402/s13.5.html
I think you might be wrong Savoir. As he made the changes to an Australian Flag before GST I presume he fulfilled all the tax requirements of the time. This means he is free to sail his boat in and out of Australia at will as it is an Australian vessel. Alternatively if he had purchase the boat before GST and kept it as a non Australian Flagged vessel then when he comes into Australia, assuming the boat is in his name and he is an Australian National, he will be due for taxes as discussed.
__________________
lordgeoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2010, 22:10   #263
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Mediterranean
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 50
Posts: 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by savoir View Post
Where in my post do I define 10% as you suggest ? Maybe you can see it but I sure can't.
Ah in Australia from day dot, GST = 10%, 10% = GST.
__________________
lordgeoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2010, 22:41   #264
Registered User
 
ozskipper's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NSW Australia
Boat: Traditional 30
Posts: 1,981
There is one idea. Although I am not too sure how well it would work. Keep the boat registered in the original country, as if the australia destination was a part of an ongoing journey.

Then again, the beaurocrats will probably have an ace up their sleeve for that, but it may be worth investigating.

Here is the ATO's slant on it. Which is pretty simple. If your going to import a yacht be prepared for a 5% and 10% slug when you get it here.
importing a yacht

Cheers OZ
__________________
ozskipper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2010, 23:03   #265
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Boat: Able 50
Posts: 3,055
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordgeoff View Post
I think you might be wrong Savoir. As he made the changes to an Australian Flag before GST I presume he fulfilled all the tax requirements of the time. This means he is free to sail his boat in and out of Australia at will as it is an Australian vessel. Alternatively if he had purchase the boat before GST and kept it as a non Australian Flagged vessel then when he comes into Australia, assuming the boat is in his name and he is an Australian National, he will be due for taxes as discussed.
The customs guys don't give two beans for flags. Tax and flag are not connected. If the owner is Australian, he pays tax on arrival regardless of whose flag he flys. " The tax requirements of the time " are irrelevant. Importation is the trigger not purchase. The boat owner is paying an import tax not a sales tax. See section 13.5 of Australia's GST law that I already linked to. If an Australian owner imports a boat for personal use he pays GST - forget flag - forget purchase date.

The only way this guy could dodge GST would be if he could prove payment of Australian sales tax as applicable to a boat in 1998. Given that the boat wasn't in Austalia at the the time of purchase it would be astonishing if he had made such a kind (to the taxman) gesture. In 1998 many of Australia's sales tax rates were higher than 10% so he might be saving money anyway. I'm not sure about the % of the old sales tax on boats and I couldn't be bothered looking it up.
__________________
savoir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2010, 23:21   #266
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Mediterranean
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 50
Posts: 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by savoir View Post
The customs guys don't give two beans for flags. Tax and flag are not connected. If the owner is Australian, he pays tax on arrival regardless of whose flag he flys. " The tax requirements of the time " are irrelevant. Importation is the trigger not purchase. The boat owner is paying an import tax not a sales tax. See section 13.5 of Australia's GST law that I already linked to. If an Australian owner imports a boat for personal use he pays GST - forget flag - forget purchase date.

The only way this guy could dodge GST would be if he could prove payment of Australian sales tax as applicable to a boat in 1998. Given that the boat wasn't in Austalia at the the time of purchase it would be astonishing if he had made such a kind (to the taxman) gesture. In 1998 many of Australia's sales tax rates were higher than 10% so he might be saving money anyway. I'm not sure about the % of the old sales tax on boats and I couldn't be bothered looking it up.
Wrong again Savoir. Trust me I've done it and know it backwards. My tax was $40K
__________________
lordgeoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2010, 23:41   #267
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Boat: Able 50
Posts: 3,055
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordgeoff View Post
Wrong again Savoir. Trust me I've done it and know it backwards. My tax was $40K

That comment proves nothing - beyond how much you paid.

If I am as wrong as you say, then some reasons would be nice.

Your suggestion ozskipper would only work if the owner was not Australian.
__________________
savoir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2010, 00:57   #268
Registered User
 
bludden's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Cruising the Caribbean
Boat: Fountaine Pajot Bahia 46 hull 157
Posts: 43
Blue Water Insurance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Lady View Post
The only company I have found so far is Come what may! they have quoted 5% of hull value to cover sailing from Europe to Australia for a year. They also have a clause on named storms. You will probably find more info on other topics at this site.

Trident Insurance, Perth, quoted me 3% (after commissions and taxes) on a Lloyds Policy for Blue Water Coverage, Caribbean>Canal>Australia. I insure my current non blue water boat with them, but only first year policy. I have some previous cruising experience and commercial/trading experience (only a Coxswain's ticket) so I don't know how "individual" the premiums are...policy was for $250,000 Aus...I haven't read the quote for awhile, but think I'm covered for named storms, just a higher excess...Cheers
__________________
bludden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2010, 15:12   #269
Registered User
 
Dragon Lady's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sydney Australia
Boat: Lavezzi 40, Pourpre
Posts: 949
Red face

Thanks I'll try Trident, I know people who use them and are very happy.
3% seems fair unfourtunatly Trident won't insure Etchells but then again most people won't insure them.
__________________
Dragon Lady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2010, 22:33   #270
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1
I am commencing due diligence on importing a boat from USA to Australia for fun and profit. Profit not as important as losing on the deal. Anyone gone thru the scenario lately?
__________________

__________________
greenas is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
Australia

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Importing a Boat From Canada To United States ssullivan Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 32 21-11-2017 10:14
Buying a US Boat and Importing to Canada KevinE General Sailing Forum 16 13-06-2013 17:30
Importing a Yacht from US to Australia neilrob Monohull Sailboats 51 13-09-2012 11:15
US Boat in Australia Wojo Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 15 21-01-2009 06:12
Importing a Boat to Thailand mikereed100 Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 9 30-12-2007 16:26



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:45.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.