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Old 30-10-2012, 16:11   #61
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Re: Importance of hull strength and construction quality

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
I'm presently moored next to a modern, factory made plastic boat, (one of your WTB's as it happens) which has had the hull-deck join seperate aft of the chainplates. This happened in heavy, but not storm conditions.

This caused some flooding of the hull, and resulted in them having to change course (putting the damaged hull to the lee side) and seek shelter to save their boat.
If you have time I'd like to know more about it. Are you in the U.S.? I'm curious how common this kind of thing is with these types of boats... is this a fluke, or a real quality defect that limits their capabilities in real life situations?
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Old 30-10-2012, 16:18   #62
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Re: Importance of hull strength and construction quality

I'm in Australia. I haven't heard of this happening before, certainly it couldn't be happening very often, but the owner is now being told tales of similar occurrences with similar boats. Possibly true, but more likely not I tend to think. If this was happening frequently, more people would know about it.

As I said, conditions as described by the owner, were rough but not storm conditions. Wind against tide and relatively shallow water creating steep seas, which were on his beam. A bigger than usual wave hit beam on, causing the seperation at the hull-deck join.
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Old 30-10-2012, 17:07   #63
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Re: Importance of hull strength and construction quality

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I think someone should start a thread just for Hunter and Gemini owners to complain about how nobody respects them. Call it the whine club.

Mark
You haven't heard??

Hunter and Gemini are now partnered and have actively been humping for a while now. They were screwing around before it became public.

Now we are going to see what the new babies are going to look like eh?
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Old 30-10-2012, 17:19   #64
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Re: Importance of hull strength and construction quality

[QUOTE=minaret;1063167]
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If I had a nickel for every time I've heard or read "the waves were the height of the spreaders"....
Various navies have done studies on this for centuries, it is a well known effect. Judging actual wave height, especially of larger waves from the deck of a boat, is something that comes only with long experience. It's the "Froude Effect".


Measuring Wave Height | Boating Magazine
Yep.

And every time we went out and my wife asked how high the "waves" were I took that into account and then divided by two. She always eyed me suspiciously but I always stuck to my guns.
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Old 30-10-2012, 17:22   #65
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Re: Importance of hull strength and construction quality

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You haven't heard??

Hunter and Gemini are now partnered and have actively been humping for a while now. They were screwing around before it became public.

Now we are going to see what the new babies are going to look like eh?
I saw them in Annapolis. I liked them! Very cute babies.

But then, the old Geminis were always troll-ugly to me. Even the smallest change would have improved them in my eyes.

The new Gem's appear to be more cruiser friendly with an effort to increase visibility from both inside and outside the boat.

I had a hunter for a very short time, and didn't get to sail it much, but I liked it OK. I thought it was a more-than-fair liveaboard boat for $15k.
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Old 30-10-2012, 17:39   #66
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Re: Importance of hull strength and construction quality

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Sure the production boat will likely be shinier inside, but the owner built boat is less likely to be structurally compromised in the interests of cost cutting.
Right, but maybe ignorance.
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Old 30-10-2012, 17:43   #67
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Re: Importance of hull strength and construction quality

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I saw them in Annapolis. I liked them! Very cute babies.

But then, the old Geminis were always troll-ugly to me. Even the smallest change would have improved them in my eyes.

The new Gem's appear to be more cruiser friendly with an effort to increase visibility from both inside and outside the boat.

I had a hunter for a very short time, and didn't get to sail it much, but I liked it OK. I thought it was a more-than-fair liveaboard boat for $15k.
AUGH! THat hurts.

I thought my Gem was pretty.
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Old 30-10-2012, 17:43   #68
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Re: Importance of Hull Strength and Construction Quality

The original construction of my boat was 1" thick mahogany strip plank with 3" top nails, screwed onto 2x3" double frames at 12" centers w/ 1/4" plywood ceiling......to finish it off the builder put two layers of fiberglass on the outside. Because back then they used polyester resin, it didn't stick so well, the second owner replaced it with fiberglass using epoxy resin (recently 3 layers of epoxy barrier coat were added after a close inspection of the integrity of the fiberglass).
The original design called for 7/8" white cedar carvel w/double frames, which was over built for that......though the boat is built like a tank, it doesn't behave like one in light air....the weight just makes her sea kindly when things get dicey
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Old 30-10-2012, 17:58   #69
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Re: Importance of hull strength and construction quality

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AUGH! THat hurts.

I thought my Gem was pretty.
Yes, your Gem is completely precious. I was talking about the other Gems!
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Old 30-10-2012, 18:11   #70
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Re: Importance of hull strength and construction quality

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Yes, your Gem is completely precious. I was talking about the other Gems!
Ah, the gentleman.

Longest chuckle of the week.
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Old 30-10-2012, 18:53   #71
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Re: Importance of hull strength and construction quality

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Right, but maybe ignorance.
I'd s*ggest ther g*ys b*ilding their own boats wo*ld know at least as m*ch as the laborers in a prod*ction boat factory.

*Insert letter "yoo" which isn't working on my laptop.
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:57   #72
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Re: Importance of Hull Strength and Construction Quality

Does any OP here know the strength of the epoxy:5/8 cedar:epoxy composite layup? The boat i just sold hulls had it and I see may chris White boats have it (including a 46ft one listed at $359000). Of course the epoxy also has glass fiber . Is it as strong as conventional fiberglass with polyester resin of same weight? It seems very strong and hasnt cracked anywhere. However its noisy.
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:39   #73
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Re: Importance of Hull Strength and Construction Quality

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Does any OP here know the strength of the epoxy:5/8 cedar:epoxy composite layup? The boat i just sold hulls had it and I see may chris White boats have it (including a 46ft one listed at $359000). Of course the epoxy also has glass fiber . Is it as strong as conventional fiberglass with polyester resin of same weight? It seems very strong and hasnt cracked anywhere. However its noisy.
not only is epoxy resin stronger, but polyester doesn't stick to wood very well and epoxy is alot closer (in a molecular sense) to wood so bonds very well. My boat was originally built strip plank w/fiberglass using polyester resin....because it started to separate from the hull it was removed, sanded down to bare wood and replaced with fiberglass using epoxy resin.....that was about 25-30 years ago, I had the boat out a couple of years ago and sanded down to the bare glass.....no delamination....I added 3 layers of epoxy barrier coat. Polyester is less expensive than epoxy by about half......but epoxy is a far superior materiel, by more than the price difference.
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Old 10-11-2012, 13:17   #74
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Re: Importance of Hull Strength and Construction Quality

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Originally Posted by georgetheleo View Post
Does any OP here know the strength of the epoxy:5/8 cedar:epoxy composite layup? The boat i just sold hulls had it and I see may chris White boats have it (including a 46ft one listed at $359000). Of course the epoxy also has glass fiber . Is it as strong as conventional fiberglass with polyester resin of same weight? It seems very strong and hasnt cracked anywhere. However its noisy.
George, your question is difficult to answer numerically. However, another example might help...

Our 46 foot mono is built of 25mm WRC strip planks, epoxy and varying thicknesses of e-glass inside and out. Bolt-on steel shell fin keel, partial skeg semi-balanced rudder. She's 22 years old, has done over 100K miles including both the Artic Pacific and the Southern Ocean. The hull is as new... no stress cracks, no hogging, still perfectly fair, no soft decks, no osmosis, no worms. Her launch weight was about 9.5 tonnes, so she's a bit lighter than her f/g production size cohorts.

We did paint the topsides for cosmetic reasons a couple of years ago...

So, I would be willing to say that yes, timber/epoxy composite construction is at least as strong as conventional f/g construction of the same weight. I personally believe that it is somewhat stiffer and has fewer drawbacks than f/g, but can not offer quantitative proof of that.

You might contact the folks at Van de Stadt design. They offer their designs in a variety of materials, and have done engineering comparisons of steel, alloy, conventional f/g and both strip plank and cold molded composite construction.

Cheers,

Jim
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