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View Poll Results: Which type of catamarans would you choose, price not an object
Admiral 5 1.81%
BroadBlue 18 6.52%
Catana 62 22.46%
Dean 4 1.45%
Privilege 29 10.51%
Lagoon 55 19.93%
St Francis 25 9.06%
African Cats 24 8.70%
PDQ 26 9.42%
Voyage 9 3.26%
Manta 25 9.06%
Leapord 41 14.86%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 276. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 17-04-2008, 19:27   #196
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It's an extremely beautiful boat. From the look of it's hull profile, are you a John Shuttleworth fan? Is it possible to move the aftmost side ports further aft for additional light and ventilation at anchor?

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Originally Posted by Nordic cat View Post
This is my dream boat! Still on the drawing board, but hope to start building in a few months.

49 ft. 6.8 tons lightship. 160 m2 sail area including the masts.
3 steering positions. Forcockpit, aft cockpit and in the saloon.

2 unstayed wingmasts, that can rotate 360 degrees.

Calculated the Performance Index to around 1.0, i.e. windspeed sailing on a reach at half load (1.6 tons) Will be interesting to see if the theory works.

Regards

Alan
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Old 17-04-2008, 23:09   #197
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Alan,

Very nice! If there were a production boat or one with a history it might be my first choice. Nicely done. I hope you sell the design and build a bunch of them.
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Old 17-04-2008, 23:56   #198
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Nordic Cat , Very nice drawings. Have you much experience with the bi rig?. Do they tack ok when the breeze and chop picks up?. I understand the achilles heel of light, high wind-age cruising cats is carrying enough way in a breeze to complete a tack without backing the jib. It would be a shame if such a beautiful boat was difficult to sail through a tack. Have you tried this rig style on a smaller catamaran? can you hoist a spinnaker down wind to move the centre of effort forward and ease the load on the autopilot?

Interesting concept.
regards and good luck.
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Old 18-04-2008, 03:15   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schoonerdog View Post
It's an extremely beautiful boat. From the look of it's hull profile, are you a John Shuttleworth fan? Is it possible to move the aftmost side ports further aft for additional light and ventilation at anchor?
Thanks for the feedback and questions. I think there are too many "boxy" cats, due to ease and cost of building. If you use hull flare and alot of curves, it ends up looking like a Shuttleworth. I do like his hull lines and the thinking behind his designs. I'm not so keen on some of the other features on his boats, but he and Chris White are among my favorite designers as people who have had a large influence on what I'm doing.

Regarding the side ports, if it is for ventilation purposes, then I have an opening porthole at the aft inside end of the aft cabins. These ports open up into the cockpit, and are designed to remain open even during a tropical rainstorm.
Another way I use to vent the hulls, is the "bulges" at the aft outside end of the saloon. This has 3 functions:
1.) Strenghthening and stiffening the whole superstructure.
2.) Leading water on deck away from the cockpit/helm position.
3.) It is hollow, and is used as a "chimney" to lead hot air out of the hulls. It is designed to ensure no water, (or very unlikely) will run down, but as heat rises it will vent here. Any wind across the outside will create an ejector effect, to boost ventilation.

Did you notice the 4 escape hatches? The 2 forward ones are just under the forward bridgedeck extension, so that they can stay open (at anchor) in a tropical squall, yet remain dry.

There are also ports in the door from the saloon to the forward cockpit as well as the side panels forward of the door.
The aft saloon windows are also protected from rain.

I have lived in the tropics for a number of years, so have done my best to ensure that the boat can safely remain dry and vented.

Regards

Alan
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Old 18-04-2008, 03:34   #200
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Originally Posted by bayview View Post
Nordic Cat , Very nice drawings. Have you much experience with the bi rig?. Do they tack ok when the breeze and chop picks up?. I understand the achilles heel of light, high wind-age cruising cats is carrying enough way in a breeze to complete a tack without backing the jib. It would be a shame if such a beautiful boat was difficult to sail through a tack. Have you tried this rig style on a smaller catamaran? can you hoist a spinnaker down wind to move the centre of effort forward and ease the load on the autopilot?

Interesting concept.
regards and good luck.
I'm glad you like the drawings. I have absolutely no experience with a bi-rig, but have owned cats for the last 15 years or more, and have had my share of tacking problems on the first one.
Derek Kelsall, a designer I respect alot, was kind enough to comment on the bi-rig concept on another thread. He has sailed on both the larger bi-rig cats I have been able to find.

His comments were:


Hi Alan

Since first fitting junk rigs to some monos 35 years ago, I have found conventional rigging a distinct restriction.

Having sailed just about all the options - recently adding "Flying Carpet" to the experience. I can confirm that KSS 54 "Cool Change" and "Flying Carpet", although both using a very different approach, do perform and do so without really noticing any interference. "Cool Change" is noted for being exceptionally close winded and for never ever looking like missing a tack. Our first sail was before the sail maker had finished the second sail - strange to have the one sail almost entirely off the boat on one tack, but barely aware in the performance that one was missing. - other than the considerable change in weather helm.

I believe "Cool Change's" close winded performance comes from all round efficiency, but particularly from the leading edge shape for the wing/sail combination and the low rigging drag. She does not have a headsail and not missed. "Flying Carpet" picks up an extra knot with a headsail.

I believe these rigs should really come into their own on trade wind ocean crossing - to help steering and to avoid reefing in squals etc.

Hopefully, one day they will compete on cost to produce. Will continue to work on this one.

Derek.
Derek Kelsall, FRINA.,
Kelsall Catamarans ltd.
Tel 00 64 7863 3332.
<www.kelsall.com>


"Cool Change" has rotating wingmasts like I am going for. See the pictures below, or even better, go for a sail on her if you are in New Zealand!

Cool Change Sailing Catamaran Bay of Islands New Zealand


Regarding the use of a large headsail, I'm still not decided, but will design the necessary fittings into the rig, so my options stay open. An alternative for downwind work is a kitesail. I have a 70m2 Outleader on my present boat, that works a treat.

Regards

Alan
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Old 20-04-2008, 12:32   #201
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CUSTOM MADE OR

I' m always looking for the perfect open deck catamaran, So the Maine Cat 42 would be my 1st choice, when I win the lotto. Maybe a proffessionally built Wharram in the 50ft range. The open deck Edel is a start but we are in dream land here right?
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Old 20-04-2008, 13:20   #202
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Old 16-05-2008, 21:11   #203
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I' m always looking for the perfect open deck catamaran, So the Maine Cat 42 would be my 1st choice, when I win the lotto. Maybe a proffessionally built Wharram in the 50ft range. The open deck Edel is a start but we are in dream land here right?
Kurt Hughes has a couple of nice design open bridge deck cats.
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Old 17-05-2008, 01:01   #204
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I have build my choice , the FastCat 455
Greetings
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Old 22-05-2008, 17:01   #205
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Old 22-05-2008, 20:08   #206
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MaineCat 41? Outremer 42?
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Old 23-05-2008, 12:30   #207
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I have 22 hatches, and ports plus the companionway door. In August while anchored in South Beach Miami. I could still take my afternoon nap if there was a zephyr of a breeze. Ventilation, and insulation are a wonderful thing.........
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Old 23-05-2008, 12:36   #208
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I got to go aboard Zingara at the Annapolis boat show, quite a vessel. If I had the $$$$$ for the crew and upkeep that would be my choice.

Realistically my choice would be Gideon's FastCat 455(or maybe the 58 footer version.) with the Green Motion option. I like the idea of no fuel usage.
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Old 24-05-2008, 10:02   #209
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I was with Peter Whirley last week and visited the hull number 3 , a fantastic spacious cat one could live on for many years.
well designed and thought out. Depending on the age of my first one I would also consider this ( 13 to 18 years of age I would even trade for a lesser cat)

Greetings
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Old 06-06-2008, 11:10   #210
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I do not know how to start a pol but would it not be an idea to make a pol like this but have yachts in the size category in the poll what to choose
For instance
Catana 431
Privilege 435
Lagoon 440
Outremer 45
Mooring 46
Voyage 450
Lightwave 45
Lebreton 45
FastCat 455
Dean 440
Knysna 440
Broadbleu 435

and I am sure there are many more and the same could be done for 40 foot cats etc
It would make more sense than having to make the choice with unlimited funds for any boat.

Greetings

Gideon
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