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Old 23-03-2008, 04:19   #31
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Fast cat. As the one who originally raised the question of advertising I feel I should perhaps amplify my original comments.
Firstly, even if I don't agree with some of the statements you make about construction, I find them interesting and informative, not to say thought provoking.
I have no objection to you saying 'in the boats that I make & sell, this is how I do it'. I have no objection to you saying 'I make great boats & check out my company web site' (the people who run the forum site might prefer you to pay for advertising, though).
I have no objection to you, as a manufacturer, soliciting opinions as to what people would like to see in a boat, indeed I wish more manufacturers did it.
You are completely honest about the fact you do make and sell boats and list yourself as a 'commercial vendor' so you are upfront about your commercial interest.
I do, however, feel that you have crossed a line when you publish what appear to be pictures from a brochure accompanied by a sales pitch, as in 'have you considered the xxxxx'.
I would not like to see you 'booted off' the forum and would not suggest it, but perhaps you could just 'tone down' the sales pitch?
I look forward to reading more of your thoughts on construction materials/safety etc, even though I may not agree with some or all of them. That, my friend (and as you seem to be an honest man trying to make a good product, I would count you as a friend even though we have never met) is the real meaning of 'the freedom of speech'.
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Old 23-03-2008, 06:01   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott730 View Post
Aramanta
Please don't get Fastcat435 going again.
Fastcat435, you must think we are dimwitted to believe that you have no monetary gain in your promoting your boats. Why don't you take an ad out like other vendors do and support this site, rather than always taking the free advertising route. That would be the honorable thing to do.
Scott370 contrary to what you think there are people in this world that do things without monetary gain in mind.
I get my kicks out of developing , improving and inventing new things to improve catamarans and other yachts.
The other things i enjoy doing is providing work and teaching almost 100 people in South Africa that probably otherwise would be out of work and would not know a trade.
I am in the fortunate position to do this without having to get monetary gain out of this venture. Had that been important to me than I would certanly not have started to build boats , if anything it is a marginal business. So far I have lost a fortune doing it without any regret.
In order to keep the development and the staff in my factory going i Have to sell boats , otherwise the development and employment would stop and I would loose my passion. If you where to talk to clients of mine you would find out how I tick.
I hope I can keep on doing this for a long time and do not keep the gained knowledge for myself. I love to share.
I am probably different.

Greetings

P.S. commercial vendor should probably read uncommercial vendor that would be more apropriate
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Old 23-03-2008, 08:11   #33
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So, lets see your post recommending another brand. There must be another brand that you could recommend, isn't there?
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Old 23-03-2008, 08:22   #34
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I have read on many occasions Gideon recomending other brands as a better alternative to his boats. Gideon fully understands that his design is not for everyone, the weight reduction he strives to achieve will be of no value to most cruisers and Gideon seems to fully understand that.

I'm a mono guy and enjoy what Gideon writes and what he is trying to develop.

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So, lets see your post recommending another brand. There must be another brand that you could recommend, isn't there?
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Old 23-03-2008, 08:22   #35
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Originally Posted by waterworldly View Post
So, lets see your post recommending another brand. There must be another brand that you could recommend,isn't there?
Fastcat has recommended several others on quite a few occasions such as the St Francis, Gunboat and outremmer I think.
I quite like his style as he presents options linked with realistic pros and cons for each without being derogatory.

Mike

P.S. I seem to be a Joli echo. How many seconds did you beat me by
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Old 23-03-2008, 08:49   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waterworldly View Post
So, lets see your post recommending another brand. There must be another brand that you could recommend, isn't there?
There are a few other brands that I see as very good choices
1. Gunboat
2. St Francis 50
3. PDQ a lot of boat for the money\
4. The Manta nice boat but small inside
but it all depends one what one is looking for pdq is good quality not very fast but speccially with the present USD value a true gem in cats world.
Also Cats Like the Lagoon FP Catana and Privilege are very good but not my choice because of performance.
Outremer has the performance but limited comfort for that reason not my choice but I am spoiled in comfort and so is my wife.
( I like a 6ft x 7 ft bed and standing height thruout )
I feel performance is only a must if you do ocean crossings but if you sail from one carib island to the next why spend the money on cats like mine or the Gunboat ?
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Old 23-03-2008, 09:22   #37
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At 1,275,000 Euro per boat that should be within the budget.
Hallo Eric

You forgot to mention that that is the new All Basalt 58 ft cat fully electric and fully equipped and not the 455
I already advertise on this web site thru Google .

Greetings and good luck with your choice

Gideon
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Old 23-03-2008, 09:26   #38
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I have on several occasions been critical of Fastcat, especially when his enthusiasm and salesmanship run away with him, and his claims. Having said that, I feel that the forum would be poorer if he was not on board, sharing his ideas and experiences in a most generous manner.

I think most of us can identify and sift between the marketing BS and facts.

I do get annoyed by some of the blatant product promotion, but, I don't need to read it, do I? If it gets unbearable, I'm confident in the capacity of the free thinking folks on this forum, to let him know in no uncertain terms.

People with alot of drive and a passion for what they do are like corks, they will always rise to the surface. These are the kind of people who often change the status quo, and bring things forward. I have the deepest respect for people who put their money where their mouth is, and actually do it.

Gideon is a businessman, so I doubt that he loses money on his boats at the current price levels, but how much he makes or doesn't is none of our business. (But if he wants to debate this, I feel well armed, as I have fresh quotes from SA for building a 49 ft cat in pretty much the same manner as him) I would rather be without his disclaimers of no monetary motivation, as even if correct, they sound hollow.

Gideon, keep the ideas, results etc. coming. Keep the standard product marketing stuff down, and all, or nearly all will be happy.

Regards

Alan
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Old 23-03-2008, 09:33   #39
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The thread started as "If I compromise will I ever know?". IMO Gideon feels his boats are not compromises, best of both worlds but at a price. He does sell his ideas but also helps this forum by sharing these ideas. This forum benefits all of us in the quest for knowledge and certainly we all agree his knowledge is one from actual building not theory. Lets get back to 007's original question instead of hijacking it to call out one person. I appreciate all of the people who are willing to share their stories/ideas and the ones I don't, I scroll right past.
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I like real queen size suites but am afraid to compromise speed and windward performance, based entirely on reading and not experience. Even though I barely know how to sail I can tell that a huge chasm separates quasi-racers and livaboards. I really liked the St. Francis 50 at the Miami show - will I be sorry I didnt work a couple more years and get the Catana 50? I plan to spend a week on a livaboard sailing course on a Leopard 45 - I expect that will set my performance expectations for good or ill. The problem is my early retirement plan doesnt extend much past island hopping in the Carribbean with my best friend and girlfriends du jour. I would like to single hand in a pinch and easily sail with two people. I want four decent sized bedrooms so family and friends can (sometimes) visit. I dont want to rule out passages. I guess I could look for something used around $350K and then take a bath on it and upgrade - but I suspect that would be the worst of both worlds. I didnt feel the Leopard 46, Lagoon 44 or Manta 42 had roomy enough cabins to truly live in for long periods (to my taste). Would I just get myself into trouble with more sailing performance or could I just be more conservative with a performance cat until my skill and confidence increases? My experience with stinkboats has me leaning toward purchasing a new boat, but maybe a used boat is a necessary evil until I figure out what I really want. If my boat / equipment budget is rising $400k/yr should I just work two or three extra years and start off with the taj mahal? If you had it to do over again would you have left 3 years earlier in a Hobie or stuck it out to get what you really wanted but would probably never need?
Quote:
I'm not ordinarily one who enjoys "infomercials"

But to be fair to SpeedyPussy his posts and arguments do at least come accross as being the product of a rational mind (unlike someone else who posts here for the same reasons and who I suspect has inhaled way too much Aluminium as part of his job ).

Whilst a large Catamaran is outside my interests (and budget!) I do enjoy reading and learning about the pros and cons of cats - to which I feel that SpeedyPussy does contribute to this forum - whilst he makes and debates his points it also allows others to do the same and therefore presents valuable info for the less informed (moi!) on Cats in general to either ponder over or use for further research.

And of course he does have "Commercial Vendor" clearly marked against his name and IMO if folk can't figure out that this equals a vested interest then........they won't figure my new signature out
That's good stuff.... couldn't agree more....
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Old 23-03-2008, 09:38   #40
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Originally Posted by fastcat435 View Post
Hallo Eric

You forgot to mention that that is the new All Basalt 58 ft cat fully electric and fully equipped and not the 455
I already advertise on this web site thru Google .

Greetings and good luck with your choice

Gideon
My fault, I quoted the wrong pm. Sorry about that.
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Old 23-03-2008, 10:45   #41
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My fault, I quoted the wrong pm. Sorry about that.
No problm anytime I can help let me know

Greetings
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Old 23-03-2008, 11:58   #42
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I think you idea is great but the one thing I see is I remember my first rough sailing experience I had taken my boat out of May Port and was going in at St Augustine and a storm came up very quickly. I was not worried as I had prepared for this possibility and it only lasted 30 to 45 min. I had been sailing since I was young but when the waves got big and the wind picked up I got nervous. Every thing was fine but still I was nervous and I have been doing this as I said for years. I cant imagine taking a 2 week class and than moving aboard that big of a boat and that will be a huge boat and go sailing. Your boat will be wider than a lot of boats out there.
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Old 23-03-2008, 12:18   #43
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Thenas007, of course you would know if you compromize. Think about the first furniture purchases you made. If like most you bought cheap stuff and had to replace it. As time passes and finances improve you purchase better stuff, which doesn't need to be replaced as soon. So the basic question is should you wait and purchase the best in two or three years or buy something cheap now. Someone also brought up that no one ever said "I wish I'd worked more" on their death bed.

But, given your 48, and making around a million dollars a year as an engineer, I'd work a couple more years. Given your from the USA and with the economy in the dumps, the chance of finding a million dollar per year engineering job after your hiatus is questionable. It also sounds as if your going to pay cash for the boat so at least you'll have some financial cushon if you sell it.

I was also at the Miami boat show and thought the St Francis was the boat for me. Since then I've looked on line at the Privilege 495 ( I think thats the model #) which is also sweet! Heck, with your cruising kitty in a couple of years you can buy an awesome boat.
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Old 23-03-2008, 12:55   #44
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if anything it is a marginal business. So far I have lost a fortune doing it without any regret.
Remember I am the first in line for the free cat.

If you don't mind losing a fortune (one of your boats is about a fortune and a half to me) then don't forget about me OK?

Blatant I know..............so what..........no shame here.....just the dream.
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Old 23-03-2008, 13:33   #45
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I will not forget you where the first to ask
Just do not hold your breath
Greetings
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