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Old 21-02-2015, 14:54   #91
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

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Have you ever been in heavy weather?
Yes, and I've also learned not to teach pigs to sing, for it wastes my time and annoys the pig.
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Old 21-02-2015, 15:08   #92
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

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Yes, and I've also learned not to teach pigs to sing, for it wastes my time and annoys the pig.
I won't try to have a civil discussion.
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Old 21-02-2015, 15:08   #93
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

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It is just that both are a drag in the water, a decision on size is up to the user. How the hell did I get into this discussion?
No idea how you got involved.

While they are intended to both be a "drag in the water", one is intended to be a lot bigger drag than the other. Parachutes essentially stop the boat from the bow, drogues just slow the boat by dragging astern. A drogue could be any thing drug behind the boat from just dock lines to looped dock lines to old tires to "engineered" miniature parachutes. This is a pretty universally acknowledged distinction. Stop with bows to the weather, or slow down with sterns to the weather.

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Old 21-02-2015, 15:29   #94
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

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No idea how you got involved.

While they are intended to both be a "drag in the water", one is intended to be a lot bigger drag than the other. Parachutes essentially stop the boat from the bow, drogues just slow the boat by dragging astern. A drogue could be any thing drug behind the boat from just dock lines to looped dock lines to old tires to "engineered" miniature parachutes. This is a pretty universally acknowledged distinction. Stop with bows to the weather, or slow down with sterns to the weather.

Dave
Dave, you are correct on the size and use. When it begins to get nasty I'm gone. It isn't that important.
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Old 21-02-2015, 15:34   #95
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

When I read "...suspect that cats are less likely to sink than monohulls" I just wondered what the ratio of cats to monohulls would be out there in the wild? anyone chance a guess? Anyone? Anyone? Buehler?
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Old 21-02-2015, 15:40   #96
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

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When I read "...suspect that cats are less likely to sink than monohulls" I just wondered what the ratio of cats to monohulls would be out there in the wild? anyone chance a guess? Anyone? Anyone? Buehler?
I'm probably all wet,10% ?
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Old 21-02-2015, 15:44   #97
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

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If you are going to quote, quote the whole thing.

Breaking off rudders, pulling the cockpit down? How did it get to that?

Is it a 26 ft. or 70ft. It is just that both are a drag in the water, a decision on size is up to the user. How the hell did I get into this discussion?
Because you are proving that you are totally ignorant regarding the difference between the two.

It is NOT semantics. It is definition.
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Old 21-02-2015, 15:51   #98
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

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Because you are proving that you are totally ignorant regarding the difference between the two.

It is NOT semantics. It is definition.
Can't help it. I guess I am totally ignorant. Enjoy.
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Old 21-02-2015, 16:04   #99
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

I don't really have a dog in this hunt but I thought this site was pretty convincing.


Series Drogue, ocean survival
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Old 21-02-2015, 16:17   #100
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

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I believe they serve the same fundamental purpose. The series drogue be deployed off the bow as well.


Regarding the unsinkable hard dinghy, are you referring to a Portland Pudgy? There have been many reports of problems with life rafts. It looks like a Pudgy might be a better alternative.
The Portland Pudgy is interesting, but we carry a 12 foot hard dinghy with watertight compartments and 4x6" polyurethane foam flotation attached to the sides.
I like Steve Callahan's design even better:
http://www.stevencallahan.net/images...signs/frib.pdf

I would think a standard RIB would be suitable as well, as long as it could be righted when capsized.
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Old 21-02-2015, 16:21   #101
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

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I don't really have a dog in this hunt but I thought this site was pretty convincing.


Series Drogue, ocean survival
____A series type drogue provides significant advantages over a cone or parachute type drogue/sea anchor.
iv) ____A full-scale series drogue demonstrated satisfactory handling and durability characteristics under simulated storm conditions and in actual breaking wave conditions.


Thanks for the drogue/sea anchor.

Only semantics, does it really deserve this scrutiny.

I think not.
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Old 21-02-2015, 16:24   #102
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

Back on topic here's a cat that sank at anchor...



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Old 21-02-2015, 16:31   #103
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

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Originally Posted by mark_morwood View Post
This topic gets rehashed all the time.

Assuming its pieces are basically still attached to each other, any boat (monohull, catamaran, trimaran, ocean liner, ...) when flooded will sink (head for the bottom, rather than staying at the surface) if it weighs more than the weight of the water its pieces displace. There are examples of monohulls and catamarans in both categories. There just tend to be more catamarans in the floating category because of the widespread use of foam cored construction, and there tend to be more mono-hulls in the sinking category because they have a big dense weight on the bottom to help keep them upright regardless of their construction. However there are clearly catamarans that will sink if flooded, and mono-hulls that will float if flooded (Etap is one example).

You can move between categories by adding or removing sealed compartments, but they can be breached (or overflooded in the case of the Titanic).

Once you have a boat that floats when flooded, there is still the question of how usable is the space it provides? Some will float high enough for you to stay inside, some will float enough for you to stay on the deck (or underbody), and some will float not very usefully (see the picture above of a catamaran floating with just its bows exposed); but they are all still floating. Once again, this is very boat dependent.

So the argument is pretty silly as a catamaran versus mono-hull debate. It all really depends on the particular boat and how it is loaded.
A sane voice among the peanut gallery and as most topics it all circles back to good seamanship ie. good judgement.
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Old 21-02-2015, 16:32   #104
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

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Originally Posted by mikereed100 View Post
The Portland Pudgy is interesting, but we carry a 12 foot hard dinghy with watertight compartments and 4x6" polyurethane foam flotation attached to the sides.
I like Steve Callahan's design even better:
http://www.stevencallahan.net/images...signs/frib.pdf

I would think a standard RIB would be suitable as well, as long as it could be righted when capsized.
That looks pretty nice.
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Old 21-02-2015, 16:32   #105
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

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Back on topic here's a cat that sank at anchor...



I wonder how both hulls went down?
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