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Old 21-02-2015, 08:06   #76
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

Thanks for the stories, Jaybird. And congrats for making it back....

Dave
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Old 21-02-2015, 09:27   #77
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

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Originally Posted by Scout 30 View Post
I think this settles the question of whether you need a life raft when going offshore in a cat.


I am surprised the doctor uses a parachute type drogue instead of a series type.


Series Drogue, ocean survival
Not necessarily. Note that in his account he was dumped from the raft 4 times. It is more likely the survival suits that saved them. Dr. La Sueur advocates carrying a life raft and when he speaks it behooves us to listen, but after much thought we have chosen an unsinkable hard dinghy with a parachute anchor in combination with survival suits instead of a liferaft.

In regard to parachute vs series drogue, I believe he is using a parachute anchor, deployed off the bow. Different animal than a drogue deployed off the stern.
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Old 21-02-2015, 09:43   #78
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

I believe they serve the same fundamental purpose. The series drogue be deployed off the bow as well.


Regarding the unsinkable hard dinghy, are you referring to a Portland Pudgy? There have been many reports of problems with life rafts. It looks like a Pudgy might be a better alternative.
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Old 21-02-2015, 10:04   #79
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

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I believe they serve the same fundamental purpose. The series drogue be deployed off the bow as well.
No, they are two different devices entirely. The parachute SEA ANCHOR is to be deployed in order to stop the boat and is generally deployed off the bows. The DROGUE slows, and keeps the boat tracking straight, and is deployed off the sterns. I suggest that you peruse the database website:

Victor Shane's Drag Device Data Base | Using Parachutes, Sea Anchors and Drogues to Cope with Heavy Weather – Over 130 Documented Case Histories

in which you are encouraged to purchase the book, but if you look along the webpage sides, there are links to the anecdotal data/stories which are searchable by drogue, sea anchor, type of boat, etc
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Old 21-02-2015, 10:05   #80
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

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And congrats for making it back....
I don't know to what you refer?
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Old 21-02-2015, 10:21   #81
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

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I don't know to what you refer?
My error - I mistook the race event for your personal description.

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Old 21-02-2015, 10:23   #82
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

Isn't it semantics? Used for one of a few purposes. Possibly exactly the same devise? Possible only difference may be size dependent on use?


Sea anchor or drogue.
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Old 21-02-2015, 10:29   #83
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

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Isn't it semantics? Used for one of a few purposes. Possibly exactly the same devise? Possible only difference may be size dependent on use?
Nope. Go read the DDDB.
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Old 21-02-2015, 11:06   #84
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

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Originally Posted by jaybird1111 View Post
Nope. Go read the DDDB.
And? I read it someplace. I bought a boat from a couple, in Fla., from South Africa, that used an old tire for a drogue.
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Old 21-02-2015, 12:40   #85
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

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Originally Posted by Scout 30 View Post
I think this settles the question of whether you need a life raft when going offshore in a cat.


I am surprised the doctor uses a parachute type drogue instead of a series type.


Series Drogue, ocean survival

This was a 37' x 24' x 4600 lbs. open bridgedeck offshore racing catamaran (lightweight) that broke apart not a cruising catamaran.

cheers
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Old 21-02-2015, 13:59   #86
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

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Originally Posted by jaybird1111 View Post
No, they are two different devices entirely. The parachute SEA ANCHOR is to be deployed in order to stop the boat and is generally deployed off the bows. The DROGUE slows, and keeps the boat tracking straight, and is deployed off the sterns. I suggest that you peruse the database website:

Victor Shane's Drag Device Data Base | Using Parachutes, Sea Anchors and Drogues to Cope with Heavy Weather Over 130 Documented Case Histories

in which you are encouraged to purchase the book, but if you look along the webpage sides, there are links to the anecdotal data/stories which are searchable by drogue, sea anchor, type of boat, etc
Sorry, I can't help myself. They are the same damn thing. Have you ever been in heavy weather?
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Old 21-02-2015, 14:14   #87
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

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Sorry, I can't help myself. They are the same damn thing. Have you ever been in heavy weather?
Sea anchors and drogues are not the same thing. Some versions of drogues superficially resemble small parachute sea anchors, but they are functionally different.

Sea anchor: large parachute deployed off the bow to stop the boat dead in the water and keep it facing into the seas. Boat speed will be essentially zero.

Drogue: drag device of various shapes and engineering deployed off the stern to keep the stern to the seas while still allowing forward movement of the boat. Boat speed will range from 2-6kts depending on the type and size of drogue used, as well as the boat and conditions it is in.

Sea anchors are almost uniformly large parachutes. Drogues range from small parachutes, single cone-shaped devices, webbing devices, series of tiny cones, etc.

Almost anything can be used as a drogue, but this isn't true for an anchor.

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Old 21-02-2015, 14:24   #88
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

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Sea anchors and drogues are not the same thing. Some versions of drogues superficially resemble small parachute sea anchors, but they are functionally different.

Sea anchor: large parachute deployed off the bow to stop the boat dead in the water and keep it facing into the seas. Boat speed will be essentially zero.

Drogue: drag device of various shapes and engineering deployed off the stern to keep the stern to the seas while still allowing forward movement of the boat. Boat speed will range from 2-6kts depending on the type and size of drogue used, as well as the boat and conditions it is in.

Sea anchors are almost uniformly large parachutes. Drogues range from small parachutes, single cone-shaped devices, webbing devices, series of tiny cones, etc.

Almost anything can be used as a drogue, but this isn't true for an anchor.

Mark
It is still semantics.
They both are to drag in the water. To keep the bow into the sea or keep you from surfing in a following sea or maybe to keep a raft from flipping. I have no problem with the difference in title. Just seems like a nit.I guess 2-6 knots is the benchmark. Sorry can't help myself again. It is a generalization.
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Old 21-02-2015, 14:30   #89
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

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It is still semantics.
It is not semantics if you deploy a drogue off the bow and the boat slides back on a wave breaking the rudder or turns sideways and rolls over.

Similarly, semantics are nowhere to be seen if you deploy a sea anchor off the stern and it pulls the cockpit down enough to poop, or presents your stern to hard breaking seas and resulting damage or downflooding.

I don't have a problem with you considering these as the same thing, but I can tell you that you are the only person who does.

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Old 21-02-2015, 14:49   #90
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Re: I Guess Catamarans do Sink

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
It is not semantics if you deploy a drogue off the bow and the boat slides back on a wave breaking the rudder or turns sideways and rolls over.

Similarly, semantics are nowhere to be seen if you deploy a sea anchor off the stern and it pulls the cockpit down enough to poop, or presents your stern to hard breaking seas and resulting damage or downflooding.

I don't have a problem with you considering these as the same thing, but I can tell you that you are the only person who does.

Mark
If you are going to quote, quote the whole thing.

Breaking off rudders, pulling the cockpit down? How did it get to that?

Is it a 26 ft. or 70ft. It is just that both are a drag in the water, a decision on size is up to the user. How the hell did I get into this discussion?
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