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Old 21-08-2012, 02:54   #1
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I Cannot nor Desire to Afford a Custom 40 foot Boat

After having started a search for my next boat I started to come across a term I hadn't heard before; "Owner version"

I now suspect that term is to denote how the boat is finished. And that, plus some comments made on the forums here, begats a question.

It seems to me the charter trade has a huge influence on production boats. Example, why so many heads on a boat to be used for two liveaboards? Or, extensive salon for "entertaining".

So the production boats-even the owners version-are laid out according to the whims of the charter trade.

What would be the anticipated costs to modify interior lay-out of a plastic boat when a given space is purpose built according to the liveaboard's desire?

Example; remove the settees that go on for meters to replace with more pantry or lockers. I have done a fair amount of glass and epoxy work but I doubt I can match finishes from the factory no matter how careful the craftsmanship. I suppose I could refinish everything to make the finish match but that just expands the project and costs.

Also, so many of the production boats seem to be finished in high luster plastic. Egads! I want to see wood! Woodworking is my first love and something I am very good doing. Is this yet another influence charter has? I understand the ease of housework that plastic presents.

Yet I am not looking for more work, more projects.

Sorry for the seeming rant opposed to production. I am not opposed yet I shake my head when I see a half million boat that looks like an extended MacGreagor. Yuck.

I am looking in the region of $300-450 for total first year costs.
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Old 21-08-2012, 03:14   #2
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Re: I cannot nor desire to afford a custom 40 foot boat

An owners version usually means less bunks and heads and more room as in not fitted as a charter boat, our cat is an owners version and has three heads.
Personally i would be happier with one in each hull only.

Most production boats have an internal moulding in the shape of lockers/bunks or whatever. You would have to do the work yourself or you'd overcapitalise.

The 300 to 450 dollars is that what you are allowing for registration? Or do you mean K's to buy the boat??

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Old 21-08-2012, 05:09   #3
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Re: I cannot nor desire to afford a custom 40 foot boat

You are correct in all your assumptions.
Don't look at ex-charter boats.
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Old 21-08-2012, 05:24   #4
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Re: I cannot nor desire to afford a custom 40 foot boat

Oops. Yes, that is $300-450K. That figure would include purchase price of boat, taxes, etc plus out fitting for extended passage. Thanks.
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Old 21-08-2012, 05:39   #5
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Re: I cannot nor desire to afford a custom 40 foot boat

Owners version generally means a large cabin wiht double bed and either 1 head (sometimes two - if the baot is large). 350-450k? Sure that's a pretty big budget. I purchased a jeanneau 40.3 Sun fast and will now outfit it for a circumnavigation. Boat cost usd 150k. Conversion/outfitting will cost usd 50k. Extra set of sail usd 15K.

Total 215k So you have lots of room in that budget. By the way, neither my nor I are the "let's see how little we can get by with" types. The boat will have genset, water maker, radar, forward scanning sonar, everthing else electronic, a windrudder, solar, and wind generator, freezer you name.

So If you got 400k you'll end up with a great boat.
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Old 21-08-2012, 06:21   #6
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Re: I cannot nor desire to afford a custom 40 foot boat

As for interior finishes on catamarans, wood is very heavy but inexpensive. Cored laminates with wood veneer are very light but expensive. Production boats built to a middle price point split the difference and go with gelcoat, paint or other light, inexpensive finish.

How much you can modify a production boat is dependent on the specific model. Fiberglass molded interiors can be difficult to rework esthetically. Bulkheads, some furniture and other parts of the boat may be structurally required. Hulls have small, odd shapes to work with and around. Plumbing and electrical can be difficult to rerun outside of existing chases and free spaces. Doing large construction in wood is easy, inexpensive and within most people's skills, but very costly in weight. Construction in cored laminates or other light-weight methods is expensive and not within most people's skill level.

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Old 21-08-2012, 08:13   #7
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Re: I cannot nor desire to afford a custom 40 foot boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard5 View Post
After having started a search for my next boat I started to come across a term I hadn't heard before; "Owner version"

I now suspect that term is to denote how the boat is finished. And that, plus some comments made on the forums here, begats a question.

It seems to me the charter trade has a huge influence on production boats. Example, why so many heads on a boat to be used for two liveaboards? Or, extensive salon for "entertaining".

So the production boats-even the owners version-are laid out according to the whims of the charter trade.

What would be the anticipated costs to modify interior lay-out of a plastic boat when a given space is purpose built according to the liveaboard's desire?

Example; remove the settees that go on for meters to replace with more pantry or lockers. I have done a fair amount of glass and epoxy work but I doubt I can match finishes from the factory no matter how careful the craftsmanship. I suppose I could refinish everything to make the finish match but that just expands the project and costs.

Also, so many of the production boats seem to be finished in high luster plastic. Egads! I want to see wood! Woodworking is my first love and something I am very good doing. Is this yet another influence charter has? I understand the ease of housework that plastic presents.

Yet I am not looking for more work, more projects.

Sorry for the seeming rant opposed to production. I am not opposed yet I shake my head when I see a half million boat that looks like an extended MacGreagor. Yuck.

I am looking in the region of $300-450 for total first year costs.

For that kind of budget, we could build ya one from plans.
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Old 21-08-2012, 08:30   #8
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Re: I cannot nor desire to afford a custom 40 foot boat

At least your budget is realistic (many people posting here have unrealistically low budgets, but want a mid size cat).

Regarding the appearance of modern cats -- they are big plastic boats and no amount of refinishing is going to make them look like anything else. However, there are some materials which you can use to make the interior look a bit more cozy. One, wood veneers, lightweight, inexpensive, easy to fit to irregular surfaces. But, they do not handle exposure to water well so limit their use to areas where they are less likely to get exposed to water and don't install them so that edge of the vener maybe exposed to standing water (like near the cabin sole) because they will wick up the moisture. Cork: There are some great cork sheeting material products now which are finished to look like wood surfaces and they are quite tough -- suitable for flooring -- one product looks like teak deck. Also, paints, fabrics etc...I've seen some great stuff (and some awful stuff) done with these.

Re changing the layout. I would not suggest going down this path. You will be much better off to simply purchase the layout you want.

PS: you might consider having the MODS move this thread to "Mulithulls"
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Old 21-08-2012, 09:53   #9
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Re: I cannot nor desire to afford a custom 40 foot boat

If you want anything modern in design and look then 95% plus of your choices will involve a lot of plastic finishes rather than acres of wood.....possibly that percentage even more with a multihull as by nature more of a "modern" boat in overall design.

But being made of plastic does not mean having to look like a Ford built in 1972 (with or without wood trim ). Some boats do. some boats don't - but same can be said of those which use a lot of wood ..........indeed (and IMO ) trying to make something modern into something that it is not by adding acres of olde worlde wood would look el crappola.......but I appreciate that a matter of taste (some people have some - others don't ).

If you are in the market for a modern boat, then can't really be surprised that it looks modern both inside and out - the question is whether that is to your taste (or whether you have any ).
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Old 21-08-2012, 18:33   #10
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Re: I cannot nor desire to afford a custom 40 foot boat

David, ol boy. I agree with you that there are some butt ugly interiors no matter what the material. Further, choosing wood or wood product does not automatically make an interior so much better. It can actually make it worse. Gouge me eyeballs mateys for I have seen those boats.

However, I loved the interior of Imagine. And a couple months ago I did see the interior of a modified Fontaine Pajot. In both of these, a very well laid out interior. Living space should be 'soft' and inviting. It evokes warmth.
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Old 21-08-2012, 18:41   #11
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Re: I cannot nor desire to afford a custom 40 foot boat

As I am looking for a cruising multihull, and cruising multihulls are a relatively new breed of boat, I therefore and looking for a newer boat. So be it, I am looking for a modern boat but should it look like as hard as the IKEA floor model? And I'm descended of Swedes!

If it were just me, without me bride, I would be looking for a classic ketch rig and knowing there will be an extensive refit. Been there, done that. This time I cannot tarry with the years long refit for it is I who loves project whereas she does not.

I may as well add; solid wood boats ride differently that fiberglass boats. I am not talking displacement Vs planing either. A solid boat is more kindly. Perhaps the naval architects are now coming to a place where fiber can mimic old wood and not just in the area of chainplates.
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Old 21-08-2012, 19:18   #12
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Re: I cannot nor desire to afford a custom 40 foot boat

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Originally Posted by Richard5 View Post
...
I may as well add; solid wood boats ride differently that fiberglass boats. I am not talking displacement Vs planing either. A solid boat is more kindly. Perhaps the naval architects are now coming to a place where fiber can mimic old wood and not just in the area of chainplates.
Here's an idea that might appeal to you (does to me)....some of James Wharrahams larger designs, such as the Pahi and Islander, are now available professionally built.

Much prettier (to my eye at least) than most modern cats and quite sea-kindly too.

More designed around sailing characteristics than posh accommodations so may not appeal to your bride, but worth a look.
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Old 21-08-2012, 19:39   #13
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Re: I cannot nor desire to afford a custom 40 foot boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard5 View Post
Also, so many of the production boats seem to be finished in high luster plastic. Egads! I want to see wood! Woodworking is my first love and something I am very good doing. Is this yet another influence charter has? I understand the ease of housework that plastic presents.
The reason you won't see much wood in production multihulls is because wood equals weight, and weight is something multihulls don't accommodate well.

I can't help but note that most sailors who would write, "I want to see wood!" will tend to be shopping in more traditional markets than among modern multihulls.

Wanna guess what percentage of multihulls come with teak decks?
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Old 21-08-2012, 19:49   #14
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Re: I cannot nor desire to afford a custom 40 foot boat

Not really in your price range but take a look at the Antares 44i for a purpose built liveaboard cruising cat (lots of wood too).
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Old 21-08-2012, 20:56   #15
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Re: I cannot nor desire to afford a custom 40 foot boat

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I can't help but note that most sailors who would write, "I want to see wood!" will tend to be shopping in more traditional markets than among modern multihulls.
I have some experience (some offshore, mostly coastal on USA west coast and Mexico) on these size cats but most of my experience is monohulls.

Probably the top two reason I am looking at cats is 1)I'd like to get 'back to' cats; 2) the lady doesn't like the heel of monohulls. She has TBI from car accident 10 yrs ago and can get nauseous in certain conditions...like heeling.

My plan is we will charter before we buy. Aside from the obvious 'Goldilocks' method of deciding a boat for purchase, we want to see if she is actually suited for life aboard.

So if I were to look for a cat to buy but didn't like the prospects of a modern boat, where would I go? I do have experience with Wharrams, mostly around Hawaii, so I do not think me missus would go for that design. Still, I have not completely dismissed the designs.


Quote:
Wanna guess what percentage of multihulls come with teak decks?
<1%?
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