Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-04-2013, 09:57   #31
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pacific NW
Boat: Hedley Nicol Vagabond MK2, 37'
Posts: 979
Re: How Wide is Too Wide?

If you have a composting head you can just take out the trash and avoid the pumpout station altogether.

Keeping some board down for docking is the usual approach, keels do the same thing giving a pivot point as well as handling the windage.
__________________

__________________
Cavalier MK2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2013, 10:34   #32
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,172
Images: 15
Re: How Wide is Too Wide?

My 2700 lb (modified) F-27 trimaran is a leaf on the water. I have to think carefully about how I dock her or whether I'll even attempt tight quarter. In her case, it's less about beam and more about WEIGHT vs. windage.

In the case of my F-27...
--maneuvering under power, yes, I want board down as much as possible.
--at anchor, she lays quite well with everything up because her bridle is 2x/beam (ergo each leg of the bridle is 19' long). I've had a shorter bridle, or no bridle, and she'll snatch an anchor right out the ground.
__________________

__________________
tamicatana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2013, 14:15   #33
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pacific NW
Boat: Hedley Nicol Vagabond MK2, 37'
Posts: 979
Re: How Wide is Too Wide?

I agree about having everything up at anchor. It lets the boat swing head to wind instead of sailing around the mooring. I've noticed the same in light monos except there a compromise is needed as some board/keel helps with the roll.
__________________
Cavalier MK2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2013, 14:45   #34
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 7,961
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caracal View Post

Thanks, I'm only now getting multihulls, but thanks for the suggestion. In my defence, I was responding to a post which mentioned the boards making the boat into a "leaf on the water"
The "leaf on the water" behavior is more of an issue manuevering under power at low speeds w boards up (which reduces lateral resistance). Boards partially down helps. Same thing happens on small planning hull power vessels.

Most multis (cruising class boats anyway) actually dont tend to sail at anchor -- particularly w a bridle rigged. Im not sure how this misinformation got started but Ive even seen it in print. Sailing at anchor is more of an issue w performance oriented monos like my H33...which was not designed to sit still...its fast even at anchor!
__________________
belizesailor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2013, 14:50   #35
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 201
Re: How Wide is Too Wide?

Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
The "leaf on the water" behavior is more of an issue manuevering under power at low speeds w boards up (which reduces lateral resistance). Boards partially down helps. Same thing happens on small planning hull power vessels.

Most multis actual dont tend to sail at anchor. Im not sure how this misinformation got started but Ive even seen it in print. Sailing at anchor is more of an issue w performance oriented monos like my H33...which was not designed to sit still...its fast even at anchor!
Yes, I have only read about it, but haven't actually seen it on a multi, other than weathervaning like the powerboaters. I have seen multihullers talk about their own boat doing it at anchor. But after you guys mentioned a bridle, I have to admit I have no clue if they were bridle-less or what else was up.
__________________
Caracal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2013, 14:59   #36
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,458
Images: 69
Re: How Wide is Too Wide?

Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
The "leaf on the water" behavior is more of an issue manuevering under power at low speeds w boards up (which reduces lateral resistance). Boards partially down helps. Same thing happens on small planning hull power vessels.

Most multis (cruising class boats anyway) actually dont tend to sail at anchor -- particularly w a bridle rigged. Im not sure how this misinformation got started but Ive even seen it in print. Sailing at anchor is more of an issue w performance oriented monos like my H33...which was not designed to sit still...its fast even at anchor!

We're a relatively light weight cruising cat, and recently the owners of a steel mono which was anchored near us commented on how little we were sailing around at anchor, compared to them. Particularly when the wind was against the tide.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2013, 15:02   #37
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 7,961
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post

We're a relatively light weight cruising cat, and recently the owners of a steel mono which was anchored near us commented on how little we were sailing around at anchor, compared to them. Particularly when the wind was against the tide.
Yes, wind against tide is a whole different ball game...multis can do very strange stuff then.
__________________
belizesailor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2013, 18:01   #38
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pacific NW
Boat: Hedley Nicol Vagabond MK2, 37'
Posts: 979
Re: How Wide is Too Wide?

Information is never misinformation. I've noticed a difference between cats and tris at anchor, the cat is more like a dock and the tri more like a light mono. Especially with low immersion floats, the central hull tends to give a axis for swing. Even a short bridle at the main bow is enough to reduce the effect. Cruising if the wind is less than 20 knots the anchor on one side is enough, breezing past that a bridle is necessary on the Nicol. For a fast rig I tie another line to the main rode with a camel hitch and lead to another cleat.

In a crowded anchorage I've found hanging a bucket from the stern is enough to keep a tri moving like the monos in the current versus wind department.
__________________
Cavalier MK2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2013, 18:13   #39
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 201
Re: How Wide is Too Wide?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalier MK2 View Post
Information is never misinformation. I've noticed a difference between cats and tris at anchor, the cat is more like a dock and the tri more like a light mono. Especially with low immersion floats, the central hull tends to give a axis for swing. Even a short bridle at the main bow is enough to reduce the effect. Cruising if the wind is less than 20 knots the anchor on one side is enough, breezing past that a bridle is necessary on the Nicol. For a fast rig I tie another line to the main rode with a camel hitch and lead to another cleat.

In a crowded anchorage I've found hanging a bucket from the stern is enough to keep a tri moving like the monos in the current versus wind department.
Excellent information! Thank you so very much! I'm soaking up as much as possible before hiring a tri to try things myself. The more I know at that stage, the better I will be able to know what to look for.

I thought I had made the choice to stay in monohulls for the rest of my life, but I'm finding that most of my resistance to multis have been based on me being unsure of how to handle certain situations. I'm glad to hear a tri behaves sort of like a monohull in some circumstances, at least that's familiar to me
__________________
Caracal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2013, 01:34   #40
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,458
Images: 69
Re: How Wide is Too Wide?

Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
Yes, wind against tide is a whole different ball game...multis can do very strange stuff then.

Thing is, it was the MONO that was doing strange stuff. We generally point into the wind, unless the wind is very light, or the tide very strong. We can improve this more by lifting our rudders too. Heavier boats, or those with keels are more influenced by the tides, so will point into the tide, but can sail forward over their anchor if the wind is against the tide.

Or in a across the tide they "tack" and sail back and forth which is what this guy's mono was doing.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2013, 06:00   #41
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 7,961
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post

Thing is, it was the MONO that was doing strange stuff. We generally point into the wind, unless the wind is very light, or the tide very strong. We can improve this more by lifting our rudders too. Heavier boats, or those with keels are more influenced by the tides, so will point into the tide, but can sail forward over their anchor if the wind is against the tide.

Or in a across the tide they "tack" and sail back and forth which is what this guy's mono was doing.
Ah, misread your original post, but yes like this mono was doing, monos which are predisposed to sailing at anchor tend to tack (like my H33 does). Typical cruising cats w fixed keels and deckhouses tend to respond to the current until the wind catches the usually flat aft side of the deckhouse and then they sail forward and repeat the cycle. Ive watch my W35 (and other cats) do this repeatedly with wind and current 180d opposed.

In strong opposing conditions lifting boards and rudders should break this cycle.
__________________

__________________
belizesailor is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
C-Map Cartridges Wide vs Local Coverage SV Demeter Marine Electronics 10 05-04-2012 05:07
World Wide Anchorages theway General Sailing Forum 5 24-01-2012 00:23
Haulout - Tidewater Virginia: Too Wide for a Travelift ? ggray Multihull Sailboats 2 09-11-2011 20:06



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 18:23.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.