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Old 03-06-2011, 15:48   #16
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Re: How to trim your mainsail on a Catamaran!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catsoon View Post
Thanks for the great replies so far- this forum is Great!

@44"cruisingcat - here are my traveler struggles:

Its the original equipment that came with the boat- some of the angles for how the traveler leads aren't ideal, as you haul it in

The purchase isn't great

But the biggest issue seems to be that as you lower the traveler, the slack leeward traveler line jams in the multicar traveler, or gets caught on a series of things back there - (bimini poles, etc) - I don't have a continuous line that takes up the slack.

What's the best solution- would love to have a kick ass traveler that is easy to adjust since it seems so critical on a cat

Any ideas welcome!!!
I don't know if it could be applied to your boat, but I have both traveller lines and the mainsheet led to the centre of the rear beam. It's easy to take up slack on one line as you ease the other.
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Old 03-06-2011, 22:09   #17
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Re: How to Trim Your Mainsail on a Catamaran

Makana's comment is worth reading carefully for extreme situations. Most cruising cats have a short mainsheet (onto the coach roof or arch) and do not have curved travellers: so the main sheet tightens and takes twist out of the main when the traveller is eased. This is exactly what you don't want to happen when trying to ease the sail when hit by a big gust. Dump the sheet instead.
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Old 04-06-2011, 00:58   #18
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Re: How to trim your mainsail on a Catamaran!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catsoon View Post
Thanks for the great replies so far- this forum is Great!

@44"cruisingcat - here are my traveler struggles:

Its the original equipment that came with the boat- some of the angles for how the traveler leads aren't ideal, as you haul it in

The purchase isn't great

But the biggest issue seems to be that as you lower the traveler, the slack leeward traveler line jams in the multicar traveler, or gets caught on a series of things back there - (bimini poles, etc) - I don't have a continuous line that takes up the slack.

What's the best solution- would love to have a kick ass traveler that is easy to adjust since it seems so critical on a cat

Any ideas welcome!!!
Heres an idea then ...

spray PTFE over all the blocks /traveller cars , it can make a huge difference , or silicone spray if you cant find PTFE .
I use this on my cat regularly on every moving part ( but dont breathe it in ! )
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Old 06-06-2011, 23:16   #19
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Re: How to Trim Your Mainsail on a Catamaran

Even with a continuous line on your traveller unless it is absolutely the right length you will have the jam up of the rope to leeward.
On the Mahe and the Orana we simply take up the slack to leeward as we let the car down the track. You are almost pulling the car down track so it is easy to keep the windward section of the rope under control.

True it is difficult when you need to dump the traveller quickly but the system is not really designed for that sort of speedy trim.
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Old 07-06-2011, 04:52   #20
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Re: How to Trim Your Mainsail on a Catamaran

The reason why "you are almost pulling the car down track" is because: on all straight travellers you are trying to tighten the main sheet when easing the traveller down. I agree that, on our cruising boats, we shouldn't have to do that sort of speedy trim except in a emergency, however it annoys me that on a catamaran we have to play with another rope when the mono guys don't need the extra string.
In the racing game we've had a curved traveller and a single purchase on the traveller car and taken the windward line through a good spinlock and up to the unused windward jib sheet winch; but this is getting a bit serious for a cruising boat.
I'm still handicaped by owning a monohull Bavaria 49 (for sale) but I have raced and cruised cats and will buy one once the "half a cat" sells.
All production cats, I've been on, have a straight traveller and no vang. To be blunt: that's stupid and dangerous. With the acres of cabin top, that the travellers are on, there is no reason not to curve the traveller. With a curved traveller there is no reason to have a vang and all the stress a vang puts on the boom, the mast and the rig in general.
Catsoon, you're right. A kick-ass traveller is what you want; it's a curved traveller and I've never seen one on a cruising cat. Otherwise, buy a vang and use it whenever you want to see a well set (safe) main.
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Old 07-06-2011, 06:03   #21
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Re: How to Trim Your Mainsail on a Catamaran

Multitalent, no argument concerning the dynamics (although I think it would be an error for Catsoon to proceed under that assumption that the Athena would be incapable of flying a hull). Nevertheless, glad we agree there is a HUGE difference between lifting the transom and lifting the hull just clear of the sea.

Cheers!

Brad
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Old 07-06-2011, 06:08   #22
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Re: How to Trim Your Mainsail on a Catamaran

The comments concerning a straight traveller are absolutely correct - and of course, the problem is amplified on a cat because the traveller is so much longer than on a monohull. Frankly, it is one of the reasons that I quite like the double bridle arrangement that is fitted to some cats.

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Old 07-06-2011, 06:36   #23
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Re: How to Trim Your Mainsail on a Catamaran

From a beat to the beam, I keep the main sheet tight unless I "want" to spill wind and de-power the sail a bit, (Fisherman's reef), and I adjust trim with the "traveler" as much as possible. (Searunners have no vang, as the wheel being behind the centrally located mast, prevents it). I trim the head of the sail to just a bit tighter than parallel to the Windex above it. Due to twist, the bottom of the sail will be progressively tighter on the way down.

Until you get into double digit speeds where the apparent wind changes all over the place with boat speed, (like high performance multihulls), you trim about like on a monohull.

This is under reefed main and staysail, in upper 30 knot winds, gusting to 40.

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Old 07-06-2011, 06:49   #24
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Re: How to Trim Your Mainsail on a Catamaran

With no vang and a short traveler, we have no need for a curved track, but the closer I get to a reach the more twist I get. On a long tack, when on a reach, I rig up the "preventer tackle", both for safety reasons AND to take the twist out. I need to keep the belly of the sail off of the intermediate and lower swept back shrouds, or get chafe. Going to windward, this is not needed.

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Old 07-06-2011, 15:39   #25
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Re: How to Trim Your Mainsail on a Catamaran

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Originally Posted by Kiwi. View Post
A kick-ass traveller is what you want; it's a curved traveller and I've never seen one on a cruising cat. Otherwise, buy a vang and use it whenever you want to see a well set (safe) main.

We have a curved traveller on our cruising boat. But I agree, I can't recall seeing a production boat with one. Inexcusable really, because it's a simple job to bend the track.
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Old 07-06-2011, 16:35   #26
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Re: How to Trim Your Mainsail on a Catamaran

MAinsheet for adjustment....and trimming... Traveller for emergencies... at least on my cat....I dont usually adjust it at all unless it gets really windy really fast.
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Old 07-06-2011, 16:51   #27
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Re: How to trim your mainsail on a Catamaran!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catsoon View Post
Thanks for the great replies so far- this forum is Great!

@44"cruisingcat - here are my traveler struggles:

Its the original equipment that came with the boat- some of the angles for how the traveler leads aren't ideal, as you haul it in

The purchase isn't great

But the biggest issue seems to be that as you lower the traveler, the slack leeward traveler line jams in the multicar traveler, or gets caught on a series of things back there - (bimini poles, etc) - I don't have a continuous line that takes up the slack.

What's the best solution- would love to have a kick ass traveler that is easy to adjust since it seems so critical on a cat

Any ideas welcome!!!
All good observations. These help.

As others have said, once the twist is set, it's mostly traveler. Additionally, on most cats, the traveler is easier and faster to adjust than grinding in a bunch of mainsheet.

What is the solution? Yes, the leeward line jamming is a problem and fairly common. Without details it's hard to tell, but changing a few leads and making the line continuous is a good good idea. It can really simplify line management and may not be difficult. If the car itself is jamming under load, it is possible that either it is worn out or, just the balls; they are not hard to replace and are very cheap.
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Old 07-06-2011, 21:31   #28
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Re: How to Trim Your Mainsail on a Catamaran

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Originally Posted by Kiwi. View Post
The reason why "you are almost pulling the car down track" is because: on all straight travellers you are trying to tighten the main sheet when easing the traveller down.
I think that's only the case where the mainsheet is attached directly below or forward of the traveler when the boom is midships. If the sheet is attached aft of the traveler there will be at least some amount of dropping of the traveler that will also result in an easing of the sheet.

Tom.
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Old 07-06-2011, 21:33   #29
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Re: How to Trim Your Mainsail on a Catamaran

We have a curved traveller, but the radius is greater than the length of the boom.

Lewmar suggests a minimum track radius for the standard (straight) car, and my measurements showed that that is precisely what was installed. Lewmar can make a custom car matched to a lesser radius track, but I learned that there was no warranty on it, FWIW.

Unless the boom is relatively close to the traveller-- as on boats with traveller arches-- that the traveller car does not closely follow the radius of the boom attachment point may not cause a significant difference in lowering the boom as the traveller is eased. The traveller can be located forward of the attachment point when the boom is centered so it won't be as far out of position when eased. Unless it is a really long traveller!
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Old 08-06-2011, 03:08   #30
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Re: How to Trim Your Mainsail on a Catamaran

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Originally Posted by tsmwebb View Post
I think that's only the case where the mainsheet is attached directly below or forward of the traveler when the boom is midships. If the sheet is attached aft of the traveler there will be at least some amount of dropping of the traveler that will also result in an easing of the sheet.

Tom.
Hi Tom, well "I'm never too old to learn." You're 100% correct; I've just done the trigonometry and I have to agree with you. On a cruising boat with a straight traveller the safe solution would definitly be to attach the mainsheet to the boom aft of the traveller position. It seems to me that the correct amount aft of the traveller position would be determined by the distance of the traveller from the goose neck and the width of the traveller. So for example (taken off a cruising cat) a traveller 6 meters behind the goose neck, and a traveller 4 meters wide would require a mainsheet attachment point some 32.5 centimeters behind the traveller to give equal mainsheet tension when the traveller is fully released. While the in between positions would not give you the constant tension that a racer requires, this certainally addresses the safety issue.
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