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Old 26-08-2015, 11:54   #16
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Re: How slow and/or pokey are the Lagoon 39 and Leopard 40?

I couldn't keep up with them in our Hudson Force 50....and yes we tried!
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Old 26-08-2015, 13:15   #17
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Re: How slow and/or pokey are the Lagoon 39 and Leopard 40?

Interesting? My boat speed versus wind speed is entirely dependent on my point of sale. 15 knot wind, broad reach, 10 knot boat speed. 15 knot wind, going to windward, 5 to 7 knot boat speed depending on how high I point. Headed down wind, wing to wing, 15 knot wind, 10+ knot boat speed.

That's with the boat loaded with stuff, 150 gallons of water, 50 gallons of fuel, 5kw generator, 200' of chain, 4 anchors, 300 lbs of tools, 200+ lbs of spare parts, + my 220 lbs and a fatter crew, etc.

You mention the Lagoon 39 and 400, both over 22,000 lbs. I've got a Lagoon 380, 16,000 lbs. Big difference for a foot or two of length!! Biggest difference in the boats is volume of space. The 380 has lower gunnels, yielding less volume inside and less windage.

You also mention Chesapeake Bay - EAST COAST OF THE USA. Stop right there. You might be missing something HUGE!! All but two bridges on the east coast of the USA are a minimum of 65' (excluding draw and swing bridges). One in New Jersey and one in North Miami are 56'. HAVE YOU CHECKED THE MAST HEIGHT OF THE 39 AND 40 LAGOONS? The Lagoon 380 mast Height is 58' + antenna or 61' to 62'. Unless you chop the mast and sails of the 39 and 400, I believe you're over 65', ELIMINATING THE ICW FROM YOUR CRUISING OPTIONS!!!

I've been cruising the Bahamas and East Coast of the USA for roughly 10 years in our Lagoon 380. A lot of that time up and down the IntraCoastal Waterway (ICW), which extends from Key West to New Jersey. Believe me, you do not want to exclude the ICW from your cruising grounds! If you're familiar with the ICW you know what I'm talking about, if not, please do yourself a favor and consider that issue.

Many times I've been outside, run into bad weather and simply popped in an inlet to continue my journey on the ICW. Restaurants, bars, beautiful anchorages, boat yards, etc, etc, etc.

One year on the way to the Bahamas, continuing our journey from Titusville City Marina, on the ICW, a Northeaster was blowing 30+ knots, with nasty seas 12' to 15'. Two options, 1) take the canal and locks to the Port Canaveral Inlet, go outside and get beaten to death OR 2) throw up the sails and fly down the ICW in 1' to 2' seas at 10 to 12 knots. You can guess what we did.

This point is much more important to you than me, because you have Cape Hatteras between you and the South. Cape Hatteras is the #1 most ship wrecks in the world!

Hope this helps you in your decision.
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Old 26-08-2015, 14:26   #18
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Re: How slow and/or pokey are the Lagoon 39 and Leopard 40?

Ta for the reply timbenner, valid points about the overall weight of the two I used as examples and I think I may well seriously consider lighter weight boats such as the Open 40.

Since my intended 'cruising' grounds contain only one bridge that could potentially restrict my passage (a whopping 43'er) and the Rappahanock River Bridge has 110' clearance and the Coleman Bridge on the York River is a swing bridge I'm not concerned with mast height.

Insofar as the ICM is concerned, no intentions in the direction. Have neither the time nor desire to do so.
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Old 26-08-2015, 14:36   #19
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Re: How slow and/or pokey are the Lagoon 39 and Leopard 40?

Maybe mast height will reflect on resale value down the track. Definitely worth considering. The Lagoon 400 is over 65', the 380 under and I'm not sure about the Lagoon 39.
What is the pricing comparison in round figures on the L39, L40 and open 40?
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Old 26-08-2015, 14:49   #20
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Re: How slow and/or pokey are the Lagoon 39 and Leopard 40?

Lagoon 40's are $420+, Leopards $450+ and the Open 40 $5225= depending of course on how extreme one gets with comfort options, sails, etc.
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Old 26-08-2015, 15:10   #21
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Re: How slow and/or pokey are the Lagoon 39 and Leopard 40?

In 2014 in Georgetown a leopard 40 kicked my butt in the round the island race. It outpointed me by at least 10 degrees and was much faster. She was in the class b multihulls class which I had won in 2013 against an FP 42, a lagoon 41, a lagoon 44, and a. broadblue 42. I would call those boats slow and pokey,along with my endeavourcat, but not the Leopard. In real time I only won by 5 minutes in an 18 mile race and all of the boats finished within 15 minutes of each other. In 2014 the leopard was so far ahead of me he had finished before I rounded the far mark five miles from the finish line. I can't comment on the Lagoon 39.
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Old 26-08-2015, 17:28   #22
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Re: How slow and/or pokey are the Lagoon 39 and Leopard 40?

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Originally Posted by tripletrouble View Post
Ta for the reply timbenner, valid points about the overall weight of the two I used as examples and I think I may well seriously consider lighter weight boats such as the Open 40.

Since my intended 'cruising' grounds contain only one bridge that could potentially restrict my passage (a whopping 43'er) and the Rappahanock River Bridge has 110' clearance and the Coleman Bridge on the York River is a swing bridge I'm not concerned with mast height.

Insofar as the ICM is concerned, no intentions in the direction. Have neither the time nor desire to do so.
good luck with your decision. Possibly test driving all of them at a boat show could help you?
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Old 26-08-2015, 18:13   #23
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Re: How slow and/or pokey are the Lagoon 39 and Leopard 40?

For background, have a Lagoon 470 with pre-2000 hulls -post 2000 beamier hulls and slower, but with more load capacity. Have owned the boat for 10 years and spent 6 seasons cruising Mexico. Less of a speed question since the older Lagoons (and others manufacturers?) were faster than current models.

I am an ex hard core mono racer so it was a big deal to go to a cat. In retrospect made the absolutely right decision. You will spend 90+% of your time at anchor or on a dock. Even the newer cats do fine reaching or running. Uphill they are not that much worse than a cruising monohull. Neither go to weather well, and certainly not like a racing monohull. If you go to one of the "fast" cats then you will get the performance, but will pay for it will lesser accommodations when not underway.

My suggestion is that you find a boat that you will enjoy living on and don't worry about the speed. If a mono is catching you make sure that you have glasses of wine sitting on the cockpit table unattended when the go by. Other alternatives could be to put up a bigger spinnaker, or travel at night.

Good luck with your hunt. We may make it to the Cheasapeake next summer so look for us. Love St. Michael's and Oxford.
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Old 26-08-2015, 18:30   #24
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Re: How slow and/or pokey are the Lagoon 39 and Leopard 40?

There is always someone faster, or slower, or better to weather than you. just get over that type of thinking.
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Old 26-08-2015, 18:56   #25
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Re: How slow and/or pokey are the Lagoon 39 and Leopard 40?

Although l purchased a Lagoon 450 my next choice was the Lagoon 400S as it is a great boat.


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Old 27-08-2015, 07:35   #26
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Re: How slow and/or pokey are the Lagoon 39 and Leopard 40?

If the Lagoon and/or Leopard in the 40' range seem a little slow, have your thought about an Outremer? I have no direct experience on one of their boats, but I met one of their Reps at a boat show this summer and their stated intent is to have made a boat that is a good bit faster than most others in their class of Catamarans...

Might be worth checking out...Anyone else out there have experience sailing an Outremer?
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Old 27-08-2015, 11:09   #27
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Re: How slow and/or pokey are the Lagoon 39 and Leopard 40?

If only ... I have sailed on a 42' on the Med at Port Grimaud and thought it great but I would prefer buying new and equipping it as I wish. The performance of the Outremer 42' I sailed was excellent upwind and down and highly satisfactory. Given the 45'is now the smallest Outremer I would have to go up in size or purchase used.

There are of course a number available in brokerage so perhaps I'll consider that. I am unfamiliar with the costs and pitfalls of retrofitting large sailboats. How terrible are they? Where is it best to have work done?
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Old 27-08-2015, 16:40   #28
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Re: How slow and/or pokey are the Lagoon 39 and Leopard 40?

Quote:
Originally Posted by timbenner View Post
Interesting? My boat speed versus wind speed is entirely dependent on my point of sale. 15 knot wind, broad reach, 10 knot boat speed. 15 knot wind, going to windward, 5 to 7 knot boat speed depending on how high I point. Headed down wind, wing to wing, 15 knot wind, 10+ knot boat speed.
You're talking about apparent wind speeds right?

10 knots boatspeed DDW in 15 knots true would be remarkable.
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Old 27-08-2015, 19:43   #29
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Re: How slow and/or pokey are the Lagoon 39 and Leopard 40?

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Originally Posted by tripletrouble View Post
I don't want to be embarrassed by being "smoked" by similar sized mono's.
Sailing speedy is fun.... and seeing some others more speedy might give one the idea: "I dont have that much fun as these mad guys on their speedy boats."

Actually what is speed ? Its all about a feeling... a subjective understanding of time + distance. In my understanding its > 20 knots for a cruising boat. Racing mashines are something >35 kn.

Indeed.... speed is fun, and if one has the attitude "I want have maximum of fun for the amount of money I can spend." I would go a step forward:

Why not sailing something ( i mean a boat ) which is front ahead catamarans ? - Then you dont need to care about such aspects a monohull might come along.

If I could afford it, I't take a new built 30 footer Trimaran. Unluckily I only can afford a used one which then can be a 40 footer... :-)

There are some speedy boats out there, for low prize, enough accomodation for your "leasure weekend time"... and you will be front fare ahead. I cant imagine, that you can be happy sailing a Catamaran and then be haunted by a Trimaran. Isnt ?

Actually there are some new 3-hull ones... produced in Asia, and therefore not too expensive... designed by one of the most progressive multihull designers Tony Grainger.... The Airplay Raw 30 has a bunk... it gives lots of fun :-)



In Poland is produced a wonderful foldable 30Footer Tri, the TNT34... a real pleasure boat at low prize...


If you dont want afford a new one, you can take a look at some used "fun and speed boats"... e.g. a 43 Foot Grainger, actually for sales in Frisco Bay...


If you can afford little bit more, a Crowther 40 is a rocket... for sales as the legendary sister boat Verbatim. The Tri Ave Gitana / Shark Angels just won in its category the Solo Tasmanian race... 2014 Final Placings

Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ave-G...36355233151783

Trimaran Verbatim...


As others already mentioned, you will have to take the compromise: Speed = less comfort. :-) Actually only the G4 Gunboat as Catamaran can hit the nail... this boat is in the range of 2-3 million US dollars as 100% carbon foiling mashine. Little bit over dimensioned for leasure weekend sailing with some little racing ambitions.
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Old 26-10-2015, 18:08   #30
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Re: How slow and/or pokey are the Lagoon 39 and Leopard 40?

We have a 2005 model year Leopard 40. We've had her up to 11kn, but our normal sailing speed is 7-8 kn with main and genoa. Downwind, we use an asym spinnaker and cruise at 8+. It is a comfortable ride unless we have a mix of two wave fronts coming in from the beam and quarter. Sure, there are faster boats. A Benetau 50 is likely to be faster on some points of sail, particularly going upwind. We wouldn't trade her for a B50 though - we have a lot more usable room.

The masthead is 63ft and the antenna tops at 64ft 10in. We've scraped the antenna on some of the lower bridges (or at higher water) and have a detailed bridge log.

With a cockpit enclosure (one of Makrolon and another of screening), we're very comfortable under way.

There are very active Lagoon and Leopard cat lists on Yahoo groups if you want more info.
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