How old is too old?

[lesterbutch]

Originally Posted by Dave-Zim

Greetings folks,

I am thinking about buying a second hand cat.
With my budget, and the size cat we want, I will need to buy something between 5 - 10 years old.
I realise this is a difficult question to answer but I would like to know how old is too old? At what point would I be buying a list of headaches?
If the boat has been resonably well maintained, is 10 years old still a young boat?
My wife and I intend to retire on the boat so we would probably want to keep it in good running order for twenty years or so. Do fibreglass hulls and superstructures last thirty years or is there a point they become work stressed and weak?

Some practical experience and opinions would be really appreciated.

Regards to all

Dave

Any well built boat, this means disreguarding boats that were cheaply built to begin with, will stand up far longer than you will live! As far as I know, fiberglass does not degenerate any faster than any other common building material. The gell coat will suffer with time but is realatively easy to replace. I know of early sixty fiberglass hulls that are as sound as when they were launched and easily pass survey. Just look for excessive stress cracking because any hull can be abused.

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by Steamer

GRP hulls must be of a perfect quality to wear the next 30 years from its building. Guess none of recent production boats will be able for that long life.

Let me know if You need the boat "today" or You can wait her building?
I can discuss with the architect possible alternative to GRP hull keeping in mind 50-ft cat for You, if this size is OK. This option will definitely work for a few decades. PM if this way is workable.

folks do not realize that fiberglass layups continue to cure for decades, eventually becoming brittle. As long as the hull is under 30 years old, should be safe and sound. Beyond 40 years old and you are dealing with an increasingly brittle hull that eventually will either crack or delaminate.

[Steamer]

Originally Posted by lesterbutch

As far as I know, fiberglass does not degenerate any faster than any other common building material. The gell coat will suffer with time but is realatively easy to replace. I know of early sixty fiberglass hulls that are as sound as when they were launched and easily pass survey. Just look for excessive stress cracking because any hull can be abused.

Dear Lester,

The thing is that 70-ties built monolytic monos and this century built cored cat hulls do differ (((

[paxfish]

Originally Posted by seasick

"I would like to know how old is too old? At what point would I be buying a list of headaches?"

If a boat has been owned by a miticulous individual with deep pockets and a desire to maintain and upgrade, there really isn't an age where old is too old.

If a boat is owned by a neglectful individual who can't afford to own a boat then most systems will show signs of deferred maintenance in just a few years.

There are plenty of antique boats today that are in better shape then when they were launched.

Age is important because some things deteriorate with age. Like bearing seals or bedding compounds. But age as a decision factor pales in comparison to original build quality and subsequent maintenance.

The fact that this question is being asked suggests some more time owning boats is required before diving in. Great budget though. If you want to jump start things, you could hire someone experienced for the first couple of years to show you the ropes. Someone willing to show you how to reseat an exhaust valve, install an alternator, re-tab a bulkhead, rig a new halyard at sea, jury rig a steering system while barfing in a bucket, re-bed a seacock. All of which you might have to do, and some of which you might have to do under duress!

[akprb]

Great Question

We owned a 1997 50' custom dutch catamaran for a decade. She took us and two little kids all over the Caribbean and across the Pacific. She has been back and forth from NZ to Tonga and Fiji several times and I've singlehanded her on many occasions. Sharing all this as I have some opinions on these big girls :-)

Your question was age. The builder of out boat retired to New Zealand from Holland and we had the opportunity to take him and his wife sailing (he had never actually sailed the boat!). At this point Ohana was about 10 or 11 years old and I was contemplating keeping her through her 20s plus (just a great boat). She had depreciated to that magic 10 year point and I felt that taking her to 20 would be the next big hit on value. That being said we would get 10 more years of enjoyment which is value in itself.

So I asked Lois Ooms "how long with this boat last?" and he answered in his thick dutch accent "she vill last forever, she is plastic".

A well maintained cat that is 5-10 years old and is well maintained will be a great value. The first few years are working out bugs anyway and the big hit on value. The systems that need to be attended to will be similar to all boats over time and short of decor all pretty standard.

Other advice we received when shopping was "buy as much waterline as you can afford". I totally agree with this and would stay above 47' as your budget seems to allow.

Handling for two, no problem what so ever. Not only are they exceptionally easy to maneuver in tight spaces, offshore the fatigue factor is almost nil. We anchored in Atuona after an 18 day crossing and within two hours of dropping the hook (in 5' of water I might add) we had folks over and a great party. Our friends on a 60' monohull were shot and recovering for 3 days.

As far as the concern about no where to haul or moor we did not have a problem over the years. We did learn sometimes better to pull into a marina then as for a space rather than call ahead. Once on the fuel dock or just off it everyone seemed to find somewhere to put us.

Now at present we are back to a 94 monohull which was inexpensive relative to the cat and perfect for what were doing now, banging around the east coast and bahamas. Your plan sounds awesome and when time comes for us to back to full time liveaboard it will be on two hulls :-)

[WildFireAus]

Hi there - my hubby and I are in the final stages of building a 57' Schionning GFORCE 17c - launching soon. We are similar ages to yourself and recently retired. We built our boat specifically this size for exactly the same reasons as yourself, comfort and space, tall family members travelling with us,and wanting a lot of real estate when travelling the seas. Our intention is to mainly anchor or swing moor and not use marinas very often as they can be costly. However my hubby is ensuring we have things installed on our cat to help with berthing in the marina - I call them boys toys. We are also setting up our winches etc so that the vessel can largely be sailed singlehanded. There is a number of larger Schionning vessels on the market in your price bracket. Prior to us going down the build track we had looked at the St Francis Catamarans. Good luck

[skipmac]

To get back to the original question, how old is too old?

I would reply with a line from one of the Indiana Jones movies. "It's not the years, it's the mileage." Meaning of course how much and how hard the boat (and engine) were used and how well it was cared for.

I would much rather have a 20 year old, good quality boat in good condition than a 2 year old, neglected and abused, low end boat.

[yeloya]

Statements like "55 ft is too big, why not 45 ft kind of cats" are totally senseless as well as other statements like "you cannot handle it" provided that you have enough skill and budget.
When it comes to large cat everyone is basically talking about "more space". This is not true, big cats are faster, can carry more load and the sea motion is less of a problem.

Yr basic problems will be;
-unless you don't have anybody else permanently on board with some skill, both of you should be fit and quite skilled + the boat should be relatively manageable one.
-it will be difficult to find a place to haul out the boat. To give you an example, in the entire Turkish coast you can only get one or two yards who can handle 70 ft cat. If you go for 55 ft, then you will have a few more.
-On the hook, the 70 ft cat would be much safer and comfortable than a 43-45 ft cat. However, if you want to go in a marina for any reason, you will have very few (and usuallly the worst) berth available and the bill can be horrible in some places.

Take a self tacking gib, all winches electrical and a bow thruster. FP Marquiese 56 , Eulethra 60 , old Lagoon 57, even Catana 58 kind of boats are all good and should be within yr budget.

Good luck

[Bobbyewe]

Look into the Leopard 44ft. or 48ft. New is always better, unless the owner has worked on the maintenance of the boat consistently.

[Canibul]

look around at what boats are still sailing 30 years after they were built. i'm guessing you won't find many cored hulls anywhere near that old.

[leftbrainstuff]

Originally Posted by Dave-Zim

Greetings folks,

I am thinking about buying a second hand cat.
With my budget, and the size cat we want, I will need to buy something between 5 - 10 years old.
I realise this is a difficult question to answer but I would like to know how old is too old? At what point would I be buying a list of headaches?
If the boat has been resonably well maintained, is 10 years old still a young boat?
My wife and I intend to retire on the boat so we would probably want to keep it in good running order for twenty years or so. Do fibreglass hulls and superstructures last thirty years or is there a point they become work stressed and weak?

Some practical experience and opinions would be really appreciated.

Regards to all

Dave

Twenty years of ownership will likely entail several major overhauls.

What you want is a vessel that is maintainable and in good condition to fit that criteria.

In two decades you'll likely replace every major system at least once.

There are plenty of monuhulls which will last for decades. Good cats that are 10+ years old are fairly scarce. A yachtworld search is a simple proxy.

Cats and monuhulls have evolved substantially from a design perspective in just the last 15 years. Good, solid Water boats">blue water boats haven't changed much in this time.

I can also recall many blogs of monuhull owners that are over a decade old. Cat blogs this old are again much rarer.

The question that keeps jumping out is owning a cat for twenty years realistic. Maybe it is? Maybe it isnt.

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[Kalinowski]

Charter different size cats to get perspective. Keep in mind that not every marina can haul a 70' cat. Slip fees would be killer!

[lesterbutch]

Originally Posted by Steamer

Dear Lester,

The thing is that 70-ties built monolytic monos and this century built cored cat hulls do differ (((

Yes and my comment is aimed at early mono's!

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by Canibul

look around at what boats are still sailing 30 years after they were built. i'm guessing you won't find many cored hulls anywhere near that old.

Doubt if any serious sailor would buy a cored hull nowadays. Reality is you just can not keep water out of a cored hull or deck over long periods of time. Seals dry out; stainless bolts do fatigue and disintegrate, especially where they are not exposed to air like in hull/deck flanges; hulls twist and flex; layup gets saturated, punctured, and cracks; and so on. The only coring materials that can be tolerated are rigid synthetic foams that are impervious to water.

[a64pilot]

Which Cats don't have cored hulls?


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