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Old 16-11-2015, 16:35   #31
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Re: How old is too old?

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Originally Posted by Canibul View Post
look around at what boats are still sailing 30 years after they were built. i'm guessing you won't find many cored hulls anywhere near that old.

Plenty of 30-40 year old and even older cored multihull and monohulls still sailing.


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Old 16-11-2015, 16:41   #32
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Re: How old is too old?

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Twenty years of ownership will likely entail several major overhauls.

What you want is a vessel that is maintainable and in good condition to fit that criteria.

In two decades you'll likely replace every major system at least once.

There are plenty of monuhulls which will last for decades. Good cats that are 10+ years old are fairly scarce. A yachtworld search is a simple proxy.

Cats and monuhulls have evolved substantially from a design perspective in just the last 15 years. Good, solid blue water boats haven't changed much in this time.

I can also recall many blogs of monuhull owners that are over a decade old. Cat blogs this old are again much rarer.

The question that keeps jumping out is owning a cat for twenty years realistic. Maybe it is? Maybe it isnt.

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Plenty of 10+ year old catamarans still sailing and writing blogs, not as many as monohulls but then again statistically there aren't nearly as many multihulls in this world as there are monohulls. We have owned 10 catamarans, the only one that has been less than 10 years old is the one we own now and all 10 have been in good shape. One of the catamarans we owned is now almost 44 years old and still in good condition.


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Old 16-11-2015, 17:11   #33
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Re: How old is too old?

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Which Cats don't have cored hulls?


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Below the waterline? I think that you find just about all FPs and Lagoons to name just a few
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Old 16-11-2015, 17:31   #34
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How old is too old?

Your qualifying the question, I didn't.
Now all I'm saying is I have a belief that most Cats adhere to "modern" construction methods is all, I'm not saying that is better or worse, it my well turn out thirty years from now that the Modern construction methods are superior, time will tell.
I'm just going to guess that the old construction methods don't work well on a Cat, makes them heavy and slow?

Now I know next to nothing about a Packet Cat, but I'd bet the thing was a Pig compared to most other Cats as I bet Island Packet tried building the thing the same way they built their other boats, but that is truly just an un-educated guess.

On edit saying the same thing in a different way is I believe the possibly those things we hold to be good construction techniques in old style mono, may not be applicable to a Cat, it's a different animal



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Old 16-11-2015, 17:55   #35
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Re: How old is too old?

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Your qualifying the question, I didn't.
Now all I'm saying is I have a belief that most Cats adhere to "modern" construction methods is all, I'm not saying that is better or worse, it my well turn out thirty years from now that the Modern construction methods are superior, time will tell.
I'm just going to guess that the old construction methods don't work well on a Cat, makes them heavy and slow?

Now I know next to nothing about a Packet Cat, but I'd bet the thing was a Pig compared to most other Cats as I bet Island Packet tried building the thing the same way they built their other boats, but that is truly just an un-educated guess.

On edit saying the same thing in a different way is I believe the possibly those things we hold to be good construction techniques in old style mono, may not be applicable to a Cat, it's a different animal



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I believe there are still some 40-50 year old Kelsall designed cored multihulls that are still going strong.
I think it was mainly the design of the Packet Cat that makes it a pig.


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Old 16-11-2015, 18:04   #36
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Re: How old is too old?

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Originally Posted by Canibul View Post
look around at what boats are still sailing 30 years after they were built. i'm guessing you won't find many cored hulls anywhere near that old.
An awful lot of Derick Kelsall's hulls.
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Old 16-11-2015, 18:14   #37
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Re: How old is too old?

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An awful lot of Derick Kelsall's hulls.

Hundreds of Pearsons from the 70s and 80s still sailing. Have not heard of any problems at all due to the cored hulls.
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Old 17-11-2015, 11:13   #38
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Re: How old is too old?

Remember boats do not learn from cruising, as it's often said boat, is veteran of South Pacific, boats that cruise just get worn out, find one that never has been cruised.
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Old 17-11-2015, 11:32   #39
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Re: How old is too old?

805Greg makes a good point.

As a former broker I look for the following when buying if budget permits.

Find a vessel that was the "dream". The owner spent years thinking about it and every detail he wanted. He had it built or outfitted new and did the "one big trip". Generally this is a crossing from the Med (Catanas et al) or perhaps from South Africa and then around the Caribbean.

The boat ends up in Florida or somewhere on the east coast and life catches up: grand kids, wife wants to spend more time at home, it wasn't what they expected, etc. That along with the reality of a large asset sitting unused 11 months out of the year.

The boat goes on the market at age 3-5 and is a great value, not ragged out and ready for the next adventure as you have planned.

We chose to buy a one off custom boat as it was significantly less expensive than a comparable production boat, of course when we went to sell sold for less as well. (part of the "buy as much waterline as you can afford)

I'll be specific. The Catana 47 we had our eye on was 500K at the time and we purchased our Custom 50 for 330K. She was 5 years old when purchased and had sailed from Holland where she was built to Florida.

We sold her 10 years later in New Zealand for 250K. Could not have chartered for 8,000.00 a year and had those kinds of memories. Yes there were cost maintaining etc but no property taxes or lawn to mow :-)

Hope that helps!

We also found as a side note the the custom was built to a much higher standard than a comparable production boat as the owner was very involved in the process and the builder was first class and his pride and attention to detail really showed. She was simple in many systems which we really came to appreciate.
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Old 17-11-2015, 12:10   #40
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Re: How old is too old?

Old school mono hulls surely can endure time.

However, even rig must be renewed after 15-20 years, and mast As well shortly after, to remain fully tip-top

I have little faith in current production practice and materials, and I have preferred to refit an old boat (25yrs) to my taste, other buying 'modern'.

On a cat,light, I feel like wear and jerks and bending are more severe...

Do not compare 55' to 70' ... it is a totally different class apart, like a man of 150lbs vs. 220lbs.... would you dare confronting!?
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Old 17-11-2015, 12:24   #41
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Re: How old is too old?

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Old school mono hulls surely can endure time.

However, even rig must be renewed after 15-20 years, and mast As well shortly after, to remain fully tip-top

I have little faith in current production practice and materials, and I have preferred to refit an old boat (25yrs) to my taste, other buying 'modern'.

On a cat,light, I feel like wear and jerks and bending are more severe...

Do not compare 55' to 70' ... it is a totally different class apart, like a man of 150lbs vs. 220lbs.... would you dare confronting!?
Plus after 20-30 years virtually all the stainless fittings like chainplates, toerail connectors, and so forth will be rotted out or close to it. Monel and silicone bronze fittings will last forever and some old time plastic boats used these metals. Many of the old cruising boats were essentially plastic versions of wooden vessels so tended to be both seaworthy and strong but not fast.
However, in trade wind conditions, almost any sailboat will travel at hull speeds.
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Old 17-11-2015, 12:52   #42
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Re: How old is too old?

I'm looking at a 1995 Privilege catamaran, so should I be worried about the hull? What if it passes survey?

I'm not worried about non-hull issues, as I have access to full maintenance records for when each thing was last accomplished (sails, rigging, etc).

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Old 17-11-2015, 13:06   #43
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Re: How old is too old?

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Originally Posted by TheThunderbird View Post
Old school mono hulls surely can endure time.

However, even rig must be renewed after 15-20 years, and mast As well shortly after, to remain fully tip-top

I have little faith in current production practice and materials, and I have preferred to refit an old boat (25yrs) to my taste, other buying 'modern'.

On a cat,light, I feel like wear and jerks and bending are more severe...

Do not compare 55' to 70' ... it is a totally different class apart, like a man of 150lbs vs. 220lbs.... would you dare confronting!?

And I think the stress that the keel of the monohull puts on the rest of the boat while heeled at 30 degrees is pretty substantial not to mention the fact the mono goes through the waves rather than over them as a catamaran does. Let's face it, mono and multi have different stresses placed upon them and hopefully they were designed to handle them.


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Old 17-11-2015, 13:45   #44
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Re: How old is too old?

Everyone is talking about hulls.

I've never seen a hull cave in, but I've seen decks smashed and lots of fittings torn out.

So long as the hull is sound, my main concerns are the decks, fittings, and engine.
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Old 17-11-2015, 13:49   #45
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Re: How old is too old?

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Doubt if any serious sailor would buy a cored hull nowadays. Reality is you just can not keep water out of a cored hull or deck over long periods of time. Seals dry out; stainless bolts do fatigue and disintegrate, especially where they are not exposed to air like in hull/deck flanges; hulls twist and flex; layup gets saturated, punctured, and cracks; and so on. The only coring materials that can be tolerated are rigid synthetic foams that are impervious to water.

What a load of garbage.
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