Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-05-2010, 06:25   #46
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Cocoa, Florida
Boat: Mahe, 36' "Oceanview"
Posts: 631
Jacket
Your blood never thins out enough to deal with the heat. You jump in the water and cool off, then you sweat again. Bimini's are a must, even more so than A/C. But I wouldn't give up my Generator or A/C, or for that matter my water maker, which most would consider a total luxury. As Mark pointed out, it is not easy to cruise long term. You are multitasking all the time and constantly resolving problems, just like you do at your home in Atlanta. You will become a "Jack of all Trades". You will meet some of the best people, in some of the most beautiful places.
Is it hard and do you get frustrated? YES. But I wouldn't trade it for anything. Listen to those who have done or are doing it, learn as much as you can now, for the most part this forum is the best on the WWW for doing just that. YOU, just have to parse the info for it's validity.
__________________

__________________
Scott730 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 17:40   #47
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mackay,QLD, Australia
Boat: planning a approx 45ft cat
Posts: 3,651
Images: 3
Jacket,

There is no doubt you are going with a A/C for valid reasons.

If you were starting an installation of genset and A/C from scratch or refitting I would fit a Vitron Inverter/charger system with boost which will allow for a smaller and more economical to run genset.

I am looking a a secondhand cat in AUS that has a 8kw genset to run a/c and scuba compressor where as I know that I could get away with a 5kw genset with the Vitron starting boost inverter system and the genset would operate more efficiently under a better load delivering better fuel economy and life of the engine.
__________________

__________________
downunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 18:43   #48
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Downunder,

If it is just the starting inrush current that is the problem, you can get soft start circuits for the AC and compressor that will solve that issue without needing to get a new inverter.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2010, 00:46   #49
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mackay,QLD, Australia
Boat: planning a approx 45ft cat
Posts: 3,651
Images: 3
Colemj,

Thanks, I am in the planning stage and researching systems.

If I did an installation from scratch in a new vessel or had to install a high voltage system in a vessel without genset the Vitron inverter/charger with boost will allow a smaller more efficient genset running at higher loads is the way to go. Similar to the recent installation done by Nick of s/v Jeddi From My Design to My Installation: New AC Power System

I have been looking at Brownie's 3rd lung SCUBA compressor systems that use a modified BAUER (the best) compressor and have a soft start on the electric motor.

I think that link also has some discussion on LiFePo4 batteries which if you are to replace batteries or doing a new installation are worthwhile considering. They offer considerable weight savings and increased charging efficiency although higher cost. I believe they can be justified now for crusiers if you look at whole of life costs and much reduced battery recharging time.

LiFePO4 Batteries - Okay Tear Me Apart ;-)
__________________
downunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2010, 05:44   #50
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Burraneer Bay, Sydney.
Boat: Fountain Pajot, He'lia 44
Posts: 325
Images: 1
Send a message via Skype™ to Gordon
The Paguro generator will handle the start up load and is worth looking at.
Gordon.
__________________
Gordon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2010, 07:00   #51
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Boat: Still planning
Posts: 43
Thanks Scott for the encouragement. I am sure there is much to learn and master other than sailing to be a full time cruiser. From what I understand, you have to become a refrigeration repair specialist, master electrician, plumber and engine mechanic.

Downunder, great info on electrical system, thanks.

Mark, what is your opinion on having the engines under the beds on your Manta? Any problems with fumes? Access? A PITA to do servicing chores?
__________________
Mark
jacket_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2010, 16:31   #52
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mackay,QLD, Australia
Boat: planning a approx 45ft cat
Posts: 3,651
Images: 3
Gordon,

The Paguro certainly has good specs and worth a look at. Weight is hard to beat. Will check out at Sancuary Cove next week. Did I hear you will have your vessel there.

My concern is it is a 3000rpm (thats why it is light) rather than a more durable 1500rpm genset.

Searching the various forums the 1500rpm gensets are much more durable and seen much more hassel free.

I don't need to make any decisions yet. Weight vs durability. If hull has load carrying capability decision is easier.

John
__________________
downunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-05-2010, 02:42   #53
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Burraneer Bay, Sydney.
Boat: Fountain Pajot, He'lia 44
Posts: 325
Images: 1
Send a message via Skype™ to Gordon
Hi Downunder,
Yes we will be at the show with 'La Rochelle' with four other FP cats. We will be on A-B dock along with most other cats.
We arrived at Southport this afternoon ( Fri 14th ) after leaving Yowie Bay on Sunday, into port each evening. Wed was a testing day but others a joy, most we saw was 14kts but average up over 7kts most days. Now for the clean and polish for the show.
Please come and introduce yourself and look over the boat and have a chat.

Gordon.
__________________
Gordon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2010, 21:35   #54
Registered User
 
muskoka's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sai Kung, Hong Kong
Boat: FP Lavezzi 40 / Hatteras 48
Posts: 775
I'd say the first step to designing your system is to think about how you'll use it. We have a 5kw genset & 2 x 16,000 BTU reverse cycle air conditioners. We don't run both AC units off the genset). We live in Hong Kong which has conditions much like southern Florida - very hot and humid in summer with monsoon rains in the spring. In winter it actually gets cold!

On the dock:
We plug in and run the AC whenever we feel like it and for as long as we feel like it.

At anchor:
We usually find it sufficient to exist with really good fans and we run them continually. Prevailing winds do an incredible job of cooling when at anchor. However, when the heat & humidity get too high we'll run the genset & AC for about 2 hours before going to bed with all the hatches closed. This usually keeps it very comfortable below decks until the sun starts getting high. We're outside all day so AC isn't needed then. When it's really hot we cook on the BBQ so that we're not heating up the cabin. I'd say for us the AC threshold is when the temperature hits about 28C.

The main thing to remember is that you'll be living a different lifestyle on a boat (t-shirts & shorts) and living in a largely un-airconditioned environment. So, the first thing that happens is your tolerance for heat increases.

Secondly, what we find is that a single 16,000 BTU is enough to make the whole boat comfortable. It's on the edge during at noon but perfectly comfortable for sleeping which is what's important. You should get sun awnings made for your boat in any case as they add a lot of solar protection.

Lastly, I wouldn't go for two 16,000 BTU units (in fact I've removed one and sold it), but rather a big unit for the salon and master cabin with a very small 5,000 BTU unit for the 2 guest cabins. Further, as an earlier poster mentioned, zone the ducting so that you can divert from Salon to Cabin during the night and vice versa during the day.

Another alternative is to have a big 16,000 BTU AC system for the salon with a small 3,500 BTU 12volt system for your sleeping cabin. http://www.dometic.com/enus/Americas...ctdataid=80972
This will let you take the heat off before sleeping without the hassle of running up your genset. But you'll need a sizable battery bank - 29 amps x 8 hours = 232 amps, and as you don't want to discharge your batteries more than 60% you'll need 386 amp-hours of battery. PLUS, all the batteries you'll need for other house loads.

It's tricky translating all the comforts of the modern lifestyle to a sailboat!
__________________
muskoka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2010, 07:39   #55
Registered User
 
Full Sail's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Florida
Boat: FP Bahia 46
Posts: 113
I bought my 46 ft cat about a year ago. I planned ,and am, living on it, so an AC was pretty high up on my list. I looked at a lot of boats with and without and retrofitted. The retrofitted boats all looked like hack jobs with vents snaking around bulkheads and such. If its important to you, get a boat with the AC already there. If it was done at the factory, it will probably be sized right, vented well and have the proper genset to match.
__________________
I may not be as good as I used to be, but I am as good once as I ever was
Full Sail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2010, 15:18   #56
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacket_fan View Post
Mark, what is your opinion on having the engines under the beds on your Manta? Any problems with fumes? Access? A PITA to do servicing chores?
Sorry for the late reply - not always around a wifi signal.

I have a different opinion about engines under berths than most on this forum - I'm actually in favor of it. Modern diesels kept and maintained cleanly should not have any smells associated with them whatsoever. I keep ours showroom clean and they have no smell at all. Oil smells are a result of messy servicing that should be cleaned up or leaks that should be addressed with maintenance. Exhaust smells should not exist period, whether the engines are inside or outside the living spaces.

Access and servicing are a function of engine space design. On the Manta, the bunks are hinged with pneumatic supports, like an automobile hatchback. Older Mantas are not, but the retrofit only requires two lifts and 10 minutes (I retrofitted ours). Access is as easy as lifting up the berth and all the bedding stays as is. Servicing is also easy. There is space to move around all sides of the engine and to get tools, containers, etc in every corner and side. The oil is emptied through a dedicated electric pump permanently attached to the oilpan.

Heat is also a function of design. Our engine compartment is well insulated from the living space (mostly for noise, but it also contains the heat) and the exhaust blowers remove the heat quickly after shutdown.

When something needs attention during a sea passage, particularly at night, I am very thankful for their location. I would be hesitant to open a large hatch on the transom, climb down into a cave and replace an impeller at night (let alone simply doing a routine engine check) during some of the passages we have had. Heck, I would be hesitant to do it in calm conditions. No hesitation at all in simply lifting the bunk.

Mark

(see pic):
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2010, 17:11   #57
Senior Cruiser
 
osirissail's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: A real life Zombie from FL
Boat: Gulfstar 53 - Osiris
Posts: 5,416
Images: 2
The Leopard 47 has the engines underneath the aft bunks in each pontoon. Access is either from the swim ladder outside or by lifting the mattress and a huge hinged hatch. These areas are very large and installing a palleted A/C unit would be quite simple. Ducting hose could shunt the cold air up the bulkhead to come out higher up.
__________________
osirissail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2010, 06:22   #58
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Boat: Still planning
Posts: 43
Thanks Mark, there are always pros and cons with trade-offs with any design. From the picture you included, it appears that there is ample room for engine access.
__________________
Mark
jacket_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2010, 22:07   #59
Senior Cruiser
 
schoonerdog's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2004
Location: annapolis
Boat: st francis 44 mk II catamaran
Posts: 1,174
Images: 4
I have a 1999 St Francis 44 that I installed two A/Cs on, so I can answer you exactly. A 16k A/C in the saloon area is easily ducted to the saloon and both of the foreward main cabins. Another A/C will be necessary (a 12 k will do) sitting in the aft port side that will blow up the galley and the ducted over to the other aft cabin on the port side. We needed to sacrifice that birth for it, but it was worth it. They are cruisair and have worked for 5 years extremely well. Cost was around 12k with cost for the materials around 5-6k and labor being the rest. The ducting is a pain for the aft one. If you do end up getting an SF44 and need pics, I'll send them, it will save you a few grand by avoiding the installers staring at you boat for a few days and "planning". Ah, make sure that your water intakes are inside the hulls. Cats have a true advantage there, few jellyfish swim between the hulls so the intakes can go a month or two without cleaning instead of 3 or 4 days in some cases.

Cheers!
schoonerdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2010, 10:51   #60
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Boat: Manta 42- Side by Side
Posts: 22
Practical AC....you are going to laugh

First let me say we have a Manta 42 catamaran with 16,000 and 10,000btu Cruisair units. They have been perfectly reliable for 9 years. In 9 years with 4 of that in Latin America and Carib we have used the AC 99.9% of the time at the dock!! True.

Two things that no one thinks of is living on the hard in the freezing north (preparing to go south) or the sweltering south (Trinidad, Panama, Guatemala) and these systems don't work!! No water.

Also note these systems tend to be noisy and are often located under berths.

If our boat did not come with AC installed, a $30,000+ option, I would never consider putting it on. So what would I do? Don't laugh!!

Buy a 10-18,000 btu home window unit anywhere in the world for under $200, a Honda 2000 generator $1000 and take the left over money and go cruising for
a couple of more years. If you have a problem, throw the unit in a dumpster and do it again 20 times over. They work on the hard too!

To give it that custom look, get some sunbrella, shock cord, and flexible foam insulation and build your own storable duct work fitted to your hatch. When not in use, toss it into a storage locker under a berth. Voila!

Fair Winds,
Marc
__________________

__________________
saratogamanta is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
air conditioning

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mahe 36: Air Conditioning Wayward Wind Fountaine Pajot 46 03-03-2015 13:56
Air Conditioning? 42AFJ Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 17 21-11-2008 08:41
How hard is it to add air-conditioning? Low Country Home Builder Multihull Sailboats 4 05-06-2007 18:25
Air Conditioning Problem avazquez Construction, Maintenance & Refit 6 29-05-2007 14:02
Air Conditioning exposure General Sailing Forum 13 18-07-2004 18:50



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:29.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.