How much less should I offer

[Robinski]

Hi Guys
Question to all. We have been looking at buying a cat to cruise the world on and we have had loads of really good info from this community, so first of all thanks for all the replies we have had.
Moving forward we now have another question. If we are looking at cats around the 250,000 price range how much less can I offer. i.e. what is the normal acceptable negotiating percentages.
I know this is another how long is a piece of string question as there are many answers possible dependant on the boat the sellers and the general market. But if anyone could give us an idea from your experiences if 10,20,30% or more off the asking price is not only acceptable but accepted.
Many thanks in advance!

[weavis]

There is no formula.

It depends on the boat and its condition and how much you want it and if you are prepared to lose it.

I always have market pricing and knowledge when I go to buy a vessel. If its in the ball park figure.... it will not budge much on the price if is a good one.

Negotiations begin in earnest when it requires known rectification from the survey. If all is good then the choice is yours to offer less and risk losing it or insulting the owner... if it needs work then that is the leverage.

[Bean Counter]

From general conversations with owners, sellers, brokers and my own experience having bought and sold a number of boats (motor and sail, mono and cat) when you have done your homework and found the sort of boat you want and on paper there is nothing much between them except price and condition, then you will have a base line number. As a "general" rule of thumb boats in the same selling price range sell for 5 to 10 % less than asking price. It then comes down to what is happening in the market (eg Hurricane events, currency movements etc) and also the sellers personal circumstance (ie deceased estate, divorce settlement etc) these outliers can have a big impact on discount taken. If you have an anxious seller and a willing buyer, the buyer will get a bigger discount. A seller who needs to sell the boat because he needs cash quickly, or does not want to pay another years marina rent or for another haul out and service, insurance, another year of market depreciation, etc etc will be more accommodating financially than one who loves his boat, does not really want to sell it, or wants to upgrade in due course. How you establish these facts through a broker is difficult to ascertain. However the difference between the two types of sellers noted above is that the cash hungry one may have skipped maintenance and the lover has a pristine condition boat - probably better to pay a bit more for the pristine boat.

In the USA if you have a buying broker the commission (around 10%) is split with the selling broker and paid for by the vendor. So there can be a bit of jockying around the commission if buying and selling broker are the same firm which may be enough to swing a deal. Also brokers have access to Yachtworlds (and their own data) in terms of asking price, time on the market and final selling price - they may or may not share this with you.

Some anecdotal example of our own, we offered 10% less on a Cat, seller rejected, we offered 5% less, seller rejected and was petulant, we pulled out. About 15 months later boat was still on the market for 20% less and finally sold for something less (this was a 3 cabin non charter factory Cat). So seller had one year of holding costs as well as market depreciation.

[SailsWithFists]

"Price is what you pay. Value is what you get." - Wharren Buffett

I always use this quote as a reference when buying or selling anything.

"Price" is quantifiable
"Value" is relative

Buyers and sellers will always have their own ideas of perceived "value," and negotiated "price" is the mechanism used to discover true value.

You have to do your research. How long has the boat been on the market? What have other examples recently sold for in the same area? Are there other examples, or is this boat unique? What are the seller's motivations? What are the seller's holding costs? Are there any extenuating circumstances that can redefine value and price, i.e.: selling in a remote location, owner unable to use vessel, strange modification to vessel, etc. Every piece of the puzzle makes a big difference.

[thinwater]

Remember that a boat that is in much better than average condition will sell above market, and if that means few problems, can be the much better value. The cost after 1 years will be less if nothing needs replacement.

There is nothing more expensive than a cheap boat that costs you sailing time, work, yard fees, and in the end, also resells for less.

Your funeral.

[Code Blue]

Location baby. It's all about location. We stole a boat in Trinidad. They can also be stolen in the Mediterranean. Getting it home for us was still way cheaper than the same boat in our state/country. Look around,!far and wide, get a survey, do some math. Score.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Robinski

Hi Guys
Question to all. We have been looking at buying a cat to cruise the world on and we have had loads of really good info from this community, so first of all thanks for all the replies we have had.
Moving forward we now have another question. If we are looking at cats around the 250,000 price range how much less can I offer. i.e. what is the normal acceptable negotiating percentages.
I know this is another how long is a piece of string question as there are many answers possible dependant on the boat the sellers and the general market. But if anyone could give us an idea from your experiences if 10,20,30% or more off the asking price is not only acceptable but accepted.
Many thanks in advance!

What I have noticed from watching the market, is that Boats that are priced correctly seem to sell very quickly. I have seen boats come on and sit there and then 2 to 3 price drops later they eventually sell when they hit that correct price - I have seen anywhere from 10% to 30%+ drops in pricing before boats have sold - This is only the price shown on Yachtworld etc as well, so the offer that purchased them could have been less. On the flip side Ive seen a couple of boats come on will very good pricing and go under offer almost straight away.
I'm sure you have been scanning the market like me for a while - Just go with your gut feeling and what "YOU" think the boat is worth and what you are willing to pay for it - They can only say No - Just try and keep emotions out of it!

[valhalla360]

There is no number.

Far too many variables and far too small of a market.

The market size in particular has a big effect.
- If you are buying an F150 in a metropolitan area, there are probably thousands available at any given time. It's possible to statistically dial in the going market price very accurately to determine if you are getting a good deal or not.
- A Model X of Brand Y cruising boat (if popular), might have 2 or 3 in a metro area for sale. They may be of different years, outfitted differently and of wildly different condition. Trying to dial in the market price is much harder and anyone who tells you they can is likely feeding you a line of....

[sailorboy1]

why would you just assume the price is too high

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

why would you just assume the price is too high

Because your the buyer!

[smj]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Because your the buyer!

Funny how that works!


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[barnakiel]

It depends on where you buy.

Haggling is a cultural thing.

In Marocco, offer 50% at best. Offer 100% and you get an odd look.

In the Netherlands, offer 50% and all you get is an odd look. Offer 95% but only if you found something not match the seller's specs.

I know that Arabs and Americans haggle heaps. Mediterraneans too. But Nordics and Benelux owners tend to price their boats about right and then they are very stiff in price negotiations.

Trim your cast to what trade culture the becoming ex-owner grew up within.

Cheers,
b.

[TheThunderbird]

If a boat is in demand, pay for it

Buy a heavy displacement boat from the '80s and offer 30% less than asking price, or move to the next one

[smj]

Originally Posted by TheThunderbird

If a boat is in demand, pay for it

Buy a heavy displacement boat from the '80s and offer 30% less than asking price, or move to the next one

I'm hoping they didn't build any heavy displacement Multihull's in the 80's.
Use your common sense, do a ton of research and decide what the actual value of the boat is. Some price high hoping they will find a sucker and some price low hoping to get a quick sale. There is no tried and proven formula.

[Robinski]

Thanks everyone for replying to this thread. As expected it seems like just jumping in and seeing what happens may be the best way to go.
I can definitely see who a good boat is worth its money and a bad one although cheap could work out more expensive. But would people agree that buying a cheap boat and doing a complete refit would still work out to be a better boat in the end?

Also does anyone know where you could find a list of recent sold prices?