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Old 29-05-2008, 15:45   #1
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How much hastle?

We are based in Europe not sure whether we will find a boat for our price here , might have to travel to USA . How much hastle is it to buy a boat , documents tax etc there and take it out of the country back to europe.??
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Old 29-05-2008, 20:38   #2
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Its really not too bad. I believe there are some standards that some boats that are in the EU have to meet. With the devaluation of the dollar against the Euro, you should be able to find some bargains.

Have you looked through the YachtWorld search engine? Advanced search for new and used boats and yachts. - YachtWorld.com
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Old 30-05-2008, 00:54   #3
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We bought our last two boats in the US. Always when the US $ was weak. The boat market, especially in Florida, is worth taking a look at!
Actually it is better to do it with a broker, as the "tax excempt decal" can only be supplied by a broker or dealer.
The broker will check the boat to buy for loans, titles, etc.
You have 90 days to get the boat out of the US.
With the official supplied papers you can register the boat fairly easy in your home country (flag),
This is at least the way how we did it with a German registration.
Bringing it back for a longer time into the EU, additionally rules apply.
We are not intending to do so within the next few years, so I an not tell you the procedures for that issue.
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Old 30-05-2008, 03:49   #4
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Unless the specific boat has a "CE" certification stamped on it you might have issues getting it registered in the EU. It doesn't help if the same make & model is generall certified in the EU - that particular boat needs it.
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Old 30-05-2008, 03:51   #5
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Registering my boat under German flag, there was never anything in the papers regarding "CE" issues, nor have I been asked for that.
Maybe because it is a used one?
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Old 30-05-2008, 05:15   #6
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Particularly for the Germans this is important; but perhaps you got through on an exception. The relevant law can be found under "EU-Richtlinie 94/25/EG" and CE. From what I understand anyone registering a foreign boat in the EU needs to get a CE conformancy of some type if the boat does not have a CE certificate, and this might involve an (expensive) survey and perhaps even structural changes. I haven't done it and am just looking at anecdotal evidence, though.

p.s. I just noticed that your boat might be German registered but is located in the USA - maybe the problem occurs when entering the EU.


p.p.s. I just saw that the CE conformancy is mandatory for vessel built after 1998, if the boat is older than that you are "grandfathered" in!
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Old 30-05-2008, 06:29   #7
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I know there is a "CE" certification for MANTA 42. Maybe that is why my registration went through without difficulties.

But very helpful, that you are showing up the mentioned reference to maybe upcoming problems in the EU, which could lead to a trap when buying a boat in the US.

EU does not necessarilly mean: an easier Europe.

The mentioned "Richtlinie" contains about 120 pages!
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Old 30-05-2008, 06:55   #8
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I'm and Englishman living in Florida for 26 years with many yachting palls on both sides of the pond. I second Pilot's advice about getting a broker to find a few like you want and then investigate the import/compliance situation of a specific make. They are much cheaper here, particularly while the Dollar is weak, but don't underestimate the cost and time to get it back over the water.
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Old 30-05-2008, 07:18   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanshin View Post
p.p.s. I just saw that the CE conformancy is mandatory for vessel built after 1998, if the boat is older than that you are "grandfathered" in!
This is not true. The CE conformancy is mandatory on boats built after 1998. That means that the manufacturer would have to make sure it was CE approved to be allowed to sell it. If you import a boat from let's say USA, it has to be CE approved, unless it's older than 50 years. If it's older than 50 years the rule doesn't apply and you are, as you say, grandfathered in.

The following information comes from SMA (Swedish Maritime Administration) and is freely translated.
If you buy a boat from outside of EU, that was built before 1998 and is not CE approved and import it, it needs to be CE approved as soon as it enteres the EU. A conformity survey costs between 3000-6000 euros and maybe additional fees if anything needs to be fixed. If the boat happens to be manufactured in the EU before 1998 and is not CE approved, you're home free. If you import the boat, you are forever and ever responsible for the CE approvement, i.e. if you sell the boat and 20 years go by, the boat changes owner maybe 4 more times, then all of a sudden there's a survey of the boat and they find out that the CE approvement is falsified or not correctly carried out, then you are responsible.

What happens if you don get a CE approvement? Nothing really. The SMA just says that the boat will be harder to sell, you are ofcaurse responsible for the CE approvement, but that's no problem if you sell it outside of the EU. It's not illegal to use the boat, there's no fine. So basically, nothing happens. At least the swedish insurance companies still insure boats that aren't CE approved. Older motor boats are virtually impossible to get an approval on due to the exhaust regulations. The SMA also recommends that you get a CE approval as soon as possible because it might be more expensive in the future if there are new rules Also keep in mind that you have to pay VAT on the boat when you bring it in. you pay the VAT in the first EU country that you visit, regardless of your own nationality. Lowest VAT in europe is on the Azores.

A way around all of this would be to flag the boat on Jersey for a fee of around 350 / 5 years.

And yeah... if you ask me the whole CE approvement of boats is just a huge pile of BS.
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Old 30-05-2008, 07:53   #10
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Quote:
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And yeah... if you ask me the whole CE approvement of boats is just a huge pile of BS.
/Hampus
Not BS.
I tend to think it just stands for Competition Exclusion but then I just might be paranoid

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Old 30-05-2008, 09:43   #11
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Good Job Hampus! I've been browsing the web to find an actual EU document that specifies the details and only found one page in German that seemed to imply it was valid only for Germany.
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Old 30-05-2008, 14:10   #12
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Good Job Hampus! I've been browsing the web to find an actual EU document that specifies the details and only found one page in German that seemed to imply it was valid only for Germany.
Yes, I've found pages that seem to imply that certain rules only apply to certain countries within the EU and that there are different interpretations of the regulations. Same thing should apply to all of the EU though since this whole CE thing is EU directive number "something I can't remember". A friend of mine is thinking about importing from the USA and we just spent a week trying to figure out which rules there are and how to get around the CE approvement. I still feel there are some pits we overlooked though... And I completely agree with Whimsical. CE is just to eliminate the competition and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the safety of the boat dispite what they try to tell us!

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Old 30-05-2008, 15:03   #13
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If you import the boat, you are forever and ever responsible for the CE approvement, i.e. if you sell the boat and 20 years go by, the boat changes owner maybe 4 more times, then all of a sudden there's a survey of the boat and they find out that the CE approvement is falsified or not correctly carried out, then you are responsible.

WOW!. They really don't want any older 'out of market' boats coming into the EU market do they? Because I can't imagine a circumstance where someone would open themselves up to a liability of such duration - nor chance purchasing a vessel and potentially getting stuck with the consequence of someone else's mistake or sheenanigans. Out of curiosity, what are the import requirements for EU citizens? If the boat remains moored outside of the EU, must citizens still pay import duty? Trinidad is going to just keep getting more and more popular I suspect! lol
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Old 31-05-2008, 04:25   #14
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The European Recreational Craft Directive 94/25/EC:
http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/marit...2_94_25_en.pdf

A great deal of additional information on the European Union is available through the Europa server at: Europa - The European Union On-Line
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Old 31-05-2008, 08:39   #15
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Out of curiosity, what are the import requirements for EU citizens? If the boat remains moored outside of the EU, must citizens still pay import duty?
Answer: NO

Had our foreign bought boats always registered under German flag, kept outside EU territory = no import duty!
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