How much can I responsibly afford to spend?

[ol1970]

Yep, I totally agree Scarlet! Responsible is definitely a relative term...means different things for different people. The world needs risk takers to though, if not there wouldn't be a lot of good stories

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by scarlet

I think this is one of the things that people do wrong when managing their finances, and why banks LOVE people like this. Determining "how much you can spend" FIRST almost ALWAYS leads to over buying. This is why so many people become house poor. You go to the bank to apply for a loan.. the bank runs the numbers and decides you can afford $500,000. So, you go out and look for a $500,000 house, even if it far exceeds your needs.

Step one.. (in the financial world, according to Scarlet.. ).. sit down, and determine what you need. how many cabins? do you anticipate visitors? how many visitors do you want to limit yourself to at one time? How big of a galley do you really need? how much counter space do you typically use in prepping food? What are the appliances you just can't live without? what about electronics? which ones are cheaper and better to put in post purchase? what water Capacity do you need? What about rigging? will you single hand? how big of a crew will you have?

Step two.... start looking at boats that have these items as a bare minimum. Make a point of looking at new and used, in different age ranges, to determine whether you really gain that much buying new. (from watching the market, I'm seeing at least a 20-25% depreciation rate with in the first few years on new boats!! sometimes more!) THIS will give you your price range. If you spend more than this? Then you overbought.

It's really that simple.

Scarlet, certainly you don't mean use some common sense. Sounds as if the OP is well fixed. I can't imagine asking the poor folk?

[0urh]

Originally Posted by scarlet

Step one.. (in the financial world, according to Scarlet.. ).. sit down, and determine what you need. how many cabins? do you anticipate visitors? how many visitors do you want to limit yourself to at one time? How big of a galley do you really need? Then you overbought.

It's really that simple.

Would you over spend for anticipated visitors that may or may not turn up? So many retirees have large houses in anticipation of their children/grandchildren coming to stay who never or very rarely turn up!

[Ribbit]

It is very sensible to change career while you are still flexible enough to cope.

My grandfather (dad's father) after a lifetime on the railways, didn't know what to do with himself when he retired, and not being on the railways any more broke his heart and he died early.

My father, also a lifetime railwayman (other than driving a tank in WW2), was headed the same way as his father, but we managed to get him to retire at 55. He's still alive as a result.

As an aside, my first retirement was at age 28 (and I was bored out of my mind within 12 months, but boy were my batteries recharged).

For at least a few years, I wouldn't 'technically' touch your lump sum AT ALL!

I would work with half your annual income - so $60,000, and even though you want a catamaran, I think it may make a heck of a lot of sense, to pick up a good solid (built as strong as an outside toilet) cheap monohull to really get in the swing of things for a few years, because what is now a buyers market is awash with some very nice monohulls that have been kept pretty well, and reasonably updated, even below that figure.

Think of it as a School boat. You will learn what you need in terms of range with food, fuel, water, storage, instrumentation, etc., important things will become second nature, and, it will allow you (perhaps after as little as 12 months) to put an order in for a new boat if you want to, or keep learning while you keep your eyes closely on the secondhand market.

I don't think I would personally want to do a multihull on the cheap, and the places you can get a monohull School boat hauled out and serviced/worked on are far less limited, and you will be able to have a close look at the places at what you may come to think of as your 'usual cruising grounds' that may or may not be able to cope with what you would like to get.

Much of course does depend on how many of you are likely to be on that boat, but I do think the boat you may like to get 'now' will be dramatically different to what you will like to get, after maybe a year afloat.

Of course if it turns out you don't like the life, then you also haven't lost your shirt.

Best of luck, and have fun doing it.

PS. Remember, at only the age of 56, Steve Jobs died and never got to go on his yacht. 'Tomorrow' can be snatched from any of us, in the blink of an eye.

[Ribbit]

Originally Posted by 0urh

Would you over spend for anticipated visitors that may or may not turn up? So many retirees have large houses in anticipation of their children/grandchildren coming to stay who never or very rarely turn up!

When I moved out of the City deep into the Green stuff, it was amazing how many people turned up expecting a free holiday. You sure found out who your real friends were . . . . The rest cost me a lot of time and money, until they got the hint (at high volume).

This is one of the reasons why I think a cheaper, older, solid monohull to get in the swing of things with, could be invaluable. "Sorry I don't have the room for you, we don't have much accommodation" is immediately obvious.

The old saying "If you want to change your life, change your friends" is very true.

[tuffr2]

Buy a 600k boat...1/2 your savings. MSRP should be $750k. That will be a very nice boat.

Then cruise your butt off with the 125k/yr.

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[tomfl]

Originally Posted by Ribbit

SNIP

I would work with half your annual income - so $60,000, and even though you want a catamaran, I think it may make a heck of a lot of sense, to pick up a good solid (built as strong as an outside toilet) cheap monohull to really get in the swing of things for a few years, because what is now a buyers market is awash with some very nice monohulls that have been kept pretty well, and reasonably updated, even below that figure.

Think of it as a School boat. You will learn what you need in terms of range with food, fuel, water, storage, instrumentation, etc., important things will become second nature, and, it will allow you (perhaps after as little as 12 months) to put an order in for a new boat if you want to, or keep learning while you keep your eyes closely on the secondhand market.

I don't think I would personally want to do a multihull on the cheap, and the places you can get a monohull School boat hauled out and serviced/worked on are far less limited, and you will be able to have a close look at the places at what you may come to think of as your 'usual cruising grounds' that may or may not be able to cope with what you would like to get.

Much of course does depend on how many of you are likely to be on that boat, but I do think the boat you may like to get 'now' will be dramatically different to what you will like to get, after maybe a year afloat.

Of course if it turns out you don't like the life, then you also haven't lost your shirt.

Best of luck, and have fun doing it.

PS. Remember, at only the age of 56, Steve Jobs died and never got to go on his yacht. 'Tomorrow' can be snatched from any of us, in the blink of an eye.

Big difference between most cats and most monohulls. First off most cats have twin screws often closer to amidships than monohulls do. The result is good drivers can park a cat with a 19.5 beam in a 20 foot slip with ease. Even for the inexperienced piloting a cat in tight quarters is much different and easier than a monohull. A lot of things like tacking, reefing, and rough weather sailing are significantly different in a cat than a monohull. The same goes for storage, not just weight, but where the weight is placed in the boat. Most cats have a lot more real estate for solar panels and a big house battery bank allows a different take on electronics. I have an Engle in my cockpit for drinks and food for meals(which is big enough that the refrigerator is not in the way) and a Frigaboat below in the galley which I never open more than once a day, and often less

My cat has two outboards that lift out of the wells and a composting head. Not only does this reduce weight but allows for no through hull fittings. Maintaining a cat with these features is significantly different than a monohull. I use an ablative bottom paint designed for faster boats (Amaron ABC) since I can hit 10 knots on a regular basis; if I had a monohull I would use a different bottom paint.

While there a lot of monohulls for sale at fire sale prices this means buying one with the idea you will be selling it quickly almost assures you will take a loss. Since cats are in more demand if you want to move up or down in size with a cat it is likely easier with less of a loss.

Finally if you do get a cat you have the advantage of being too cool for school.

[MYTraveler]

I didn't read the whole thing, but you are doing just fine. You will be on a bit of a budget, but I think you hit the sweet spot. If it were me, I would be worried about how reliable that annual income with bumps is. If 100% reliable, just worry for fun.

[zeehag]

ok now if i were as well heeled as the op, i would be phat for ever pluys 2 lifetimes more. wow... especially with this boat i have,
now, as for multihull cruising--- them boats is pricey. what doesnt take your principle will drain yer life. it has 2 hulls or three--more hulls, more work.
however, your financial responsibilities are your own personal business and what YOU can afford to spend differs from what I can affford to spend.
as the aston martin representative told me at my last car show i attended...if i must ask , then i am not able to afford it.
have a great life as only you can live it.

[Ribbit]

Originally Posted by tomfl

Big difference between most cats and most monohulls.

Oh I don't disagree with that at all.

In a way I am doing similar to the OP (but with no intention of going with a cat at any point, I have been interested in them along the way, especially tri's, but monohulls are my 'thing'), as in a few years I will be able to afford a more expensive boat.

But "GO NOW!" is the imperative in my case (I don't just 'want' heat and salt air, I 'need' them), and even though my budget is quite restricted at present. I could well still end up with a boat worth keeping. Plus I must add, I REALLY like a lot of the boats of the 1960's through to the mid 1980's, which is perhaps a bit fortunate, as well as having zero interest in anything much over 32ft in length (anything 28ft and up that's right, will suit me fine).

Good monohulls right now, really are extremely good value. Buy a new $400,000 cat right now, and what will the losses (and possibly even difficulties in selling) be like in say 3 years. Somewhere between 20% and 40% (remember you can't go on asking prices in a buyers market, there's some really nice boats, overpriced, that have been on the market since 2009)?

If it's 10% it's $40,000.

It should be easily possible to find a good, comfortable, safe monohull, that has been well maintained, regularly updated, and even with a recent diesel, for less than $60,000.

I can confirm that, because I have been looking at quite a few.

In the spirit of "GO NOW!", it is being on the water year round in full time Boat School that matters, and that life or School does not depend on it being a monohull or a multihull.

Fortunes are easily lost, and can be hard to rebuild (though a friend did make it to being a millionaire three times, as with each of three marriage failures, he left his wives with everything on condition they never came to him for anything more).

So me, I'd be really cautious right now, and get afloat RIGHT NOW with a 3 year plan of a) losing as little money as possible; and b) getting the experience along the way to solidify the necessities of the long term boat (which can include chatting to owners at anchorages and seeing what works and what doesn't, on their boats).

Heck the OP could even do a few cat charters along the way, on boats he is particularly interested in.

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by Ribbit

For at least a few years, I wouldn't 'technically' touch your lump sum AT ALL!

I would work with half your annual income - so $60,000, and even though you want a catamaran, I think it may make a heck of a lot of sense, to pick up a good solid (built as strong as an outside toilet) cheap monohull to really get in the swing of things for a few years, because what is now a buyers market is awash with some very nice monohulls that have been kept pretty well, and reasonably updated, even below that figure.

Waaaaaaaa
a mono? If I had bought a mono in the first place my family would have left me alone aboard and by now I would be boatless or divorced. Going the mono way would be my last choice if I really could not fund a decent cat. But thats just me.


@vector:
I think you should look at a couple of boats to find the minimal boat that fits your needs (with regards to boat size, age, style). If you decide a 30k mono is good enough to start with so why not. But I doubt so.

My guess is that most folks in your income bracket require some minimal size and style so they don't feel totally cramped and stupid (I mean stupid like living off dog food with a million in the bank).
Depending on your current lifestyle and expectation you may be happy with something like a Mahe, but I guess a more comfortable and capable boat like a Helia or Lagoon 420 will be a better fit. Personally I would not go bigger than 42ft unless you have wife & teenage kids to fill & crew the boat or the need for luxury style. But thats just me. If you honestly think you need more, than that becomes your minimum boat.
One thing: You don't want to factor in more than one cabin for guests. Friends and family all have a life & job and most won't find much time to visit and interest quickly fades.



That gives you an idea of the minimum boat that is acceptable to you. Now check the prices of these boats, factor in some refit and maintenance and you have a figure to work with.
If that sum fits your personal idea of "responsible spending" is your turn.
If you think you can spend much more, you may choose to buy a bigger boat. If you think its too much then the crusiing lifestyle may not be for you.




If I were in your shoes I'd buy a 42-44ft mass production cat, maybe 3 years old. That leaves most of your budget untouched but gives "enough boat" to actually enjoy it. Your passive income is much more than required to maintain such a boat and live a lifestyle most of us dream of.

[zeehag]

rodl i can see this guy buying a boat and then after first passage selling due to dislike of the boat's saiing ability.
better yet-- make it a party platform in pair a dice and enjoy it without sailing it.
with the funding this person has, a party platform in pair a dice is perfect--doesnt need to be sailed to destination, very few miles on passages in caribbean, therefore no disappointment with lack of ability to properly sail the boat, and then selling at a major loss and disappearing without a trace, to land based living, whining on how expensive ownership of a boat is. ....

[smj]

Originally Posted by zeehag

rodl i can see this guy buying a boat and then after first passage selling due to dislike of the boat's saiing ability.
better yet-- make it a party platform in pair a dice and enjoy it without sailing it.
with the funding this person has, a party platform in pair a dice is perfect--doesnt need to be sailed to destination, very few miles on passages in caribbean, therefore no disappointment with lack of ability to properly sail the boat, and then selling at a major loss and disappearing without a trace, to land based living, whining on how expensive ownership of a boat is. ....

Seeing as he is interested in catamarans I'm sure he will appreciate the sailing ability!


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[Ribbit]

This Pacific Seacraft 34 is the sort of boat I am on about:

1992 Pacific Seacraft Sail New and Used Boats for Sale - www.yachtworld.co.uk

It should be able to keep anybody safe while they are learning about life afloat, and be able to soak up some heavy weather in reasonable comfort if necessary.

Subject to survey of course.

The price is roughly 'ballpark' what I have described, but I would account for an engine rebuild (to be done reasonably soon, if not immediately) in an offer on the asking price, as it is a series and age group Yanmar that looks to have been on the receiving end of an unfortunate batch of pistons.

Should the survey be fine, I'd be looking for about a 20% discount off the asking price, to easily cover that engine rebuild being speedily and properly done, as well as a close examination of the transmission and powertrain including the prop, at the same time (prevention is better than cure).

If my present budget stretched to it, I'd be going to look at it (if I wanted to change it for a cat or anything else in say 3 years, as long as maintenance was kept on top of and things in general steadily improved and updated during that time, I don't see it doing too badly at resale).

The Pacific Seacraft 34 Sailboat : Bluewaterboats.org

Yes of course, if wife and kids can't fit in with that type of boat, fair enough. But what if they CAN and WILL?

Alternatively, if it is all about projecting ego, image, and puffing of feathers, with a boat that will never leave harbour (there are an awful lot of those around), then different parameters apply.

My parameters are strictly about learning the trade and learning to cope with a travelling life afloat. Where's the harm in steady as she goes?

It is all too easy to spend other people's money for them, and also all to easy to be put in the situation where "Ooops! It's gone!".

PS. Just seen what Zeehag posted in #72, and yes, there's enough in those odds to be really wary. Dreams can be made solid and successful, and I hate to see people fail (I've seen way too much of it in many walks of life).

[rabbi]

The threadstarter asked about a multihull. I guess for a reason.
Most people who want a cat want space, comfort, a view, large unobstructed cockpit, level sailing. Some want speed.

I don't see how a 34ft mono fits into this category.


BTW: I guess Vetcor is gone by now, last activity was 15th dec.