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Old 26-02-2008, 01:22   #46
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Originally Posted by Blue Skye View Post
I found this info on your FastCat 435 and was confused about your average speed. According to this website your average was 8.85 knots. Just wondering why the discrepancy?
New African Cats model achieves 'A' CE certificate

Regards,
Skye
This is just one example of the discrepancies/embellishments I have reacted to in Gideons postings. Its odd that the actual voyage log was removed from the site, when it "proves" the fantastic performance claims. Actually the 8.85 knots average claimed is also an embellishment of the truth, as far as I remember the average was at least 20% lower, somwhere around the 7 knot region if not lower. I have saved a copy of it on my old PC, so when (if?) you do get a copy of the log, I can see if I can breathe life into the old machine and dig out the information. Could be fun to compare.

I also see a discrepancy in the weights. Claims for lightship are 4800 kgs, yet in the press release you link to above,the claim is for a total of 11900 kgs fully loaded, including 5000kgs load and approx. 800 kgs liquids = total 0f 5800 kgs.

So 11900-(4800+5800) = 11900-10600=1300 kgs discrepancy.

The same is true of the claim of "wind speed sailing" - where his own polars disprove the statement. When faced with this fact, the answer is a "smoke and mirrors" statement.

I appreciate people who are deeply dedicated and enthusiastic about their product, but please don't understimate the audiences' capability to think.

Discrepancies and "half-truths" lead to loss of trust in the communicator and his product, which is a shame. There are plenty of comparable examples in the boat industry as well as many others, where claims made during the sales pitch are seldom met on delivery. So the good old adage of "Buyer Beware" still holds true - sadly.

I am pretty sure that Gideons product will perform better than the average cruising cat, but in cruising mode, probably not as much better as one is led to expect.

Looking forward to compare the log files...

Regards

Alan
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Old 26-02-2008, 04:01   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Skye View Post
I found this info on your FastCat 435 and was confused about your average speed. According to this website your average was 8.85 knots. Just wondering why the discrepancy?
New African Cats model achieves 'A' CE certificate

I still would like to receive the file on your voyage, cspools@comcast.net.

Again, I am really interested in your designs and green motion project. I sent you a PM and emailed info@africancats.com about any updates and your prototype 435 that may be for sale(?).

Regards,
Skye
Hallo Blue Skye , the discrepancy is that the website displays the distance between the gps positions each 12 hours while the traveled miles are actually 18 % higher according to the log.
The cost of the Prototype is 375000 Euro ex tax

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Old 26-02-2008, 04:04   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic cat View Post
This is just one example of the discrepancies/embellishments I have reacted to in Gideons postings. Its odd that the actual voyage log was removed from the site, when it "proves" the fantastic performance claims. Actually the 8.85 knots average claimed is also an embellishment of the truth, as far as I remember the average was at least 20% lower, somwhere around the 7 knot region if not lower. I have saved a copy of it on my old PC, so when (if?) you do get a copy of the log, I can see if I can breathe life into the old machine and dig out the information. Could be fun to compare.

I also see a discrepancy in the weights. Claims for lightship are 4800 kgs, yet in the press release you link to above,the claim is for a total of 11900 kgs fully loaded, including 5000kgs load and approx. 800 kgs liquids = total 0f 5800 kgs.

So 11900-(4800+5800) = 11900-10600=1300 kgs discrepancy.

The same is true of the claim of "wind speed sailing" - where his own polars disprove the statement. When faced with this fact, the answer is a "smoke and mirrors" statement.

I appreciate people who are deeply dedicated and enthusiastic about their product, but please don't understimate the audiences' capability to think.

Discrepancies and "half-truths" lead to loss of trust in the communicator and his product, which is a shame. There are plenty of comparable examples in the boat industry as well as many others, where claims made during the sales pitch are seldom met on delivery. So the good old adage of "Buyer Beware" still holds true - sadly.

I am pretty sure that Gideons product will perform better than the average cruising cat, but in cruising mode, probably not as much better as one is led to expect.

Looking forward to compare the log files...

Regards

Alan
Luckily enough we evolve and so does our product , our weigthg is still coming down , number 1 was 7900 number 2= 6950 number 3 electric 6250 number 4 5650
number 5 5100 but including a hardt top bimini etc.

Greetings
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Old 26-02-2008, 04:28   #49
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Hallo Blue Skye , the discrepancy is that the website displays the distance between the gps positions each 12 hours while the traveled miles are actually 18 % higher according to the log...
Greetings
See "Set & Drift".
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Old 26-02-2008, 04:46   #50
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See "Set & Drift".
And do not forget tacking along the 8000 mile route.

Greetings
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Old 26-02-2008, 05:02   #51
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And do not forget tacking along the 8000 mile route.
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See "Set & Drift".
D'oh - I sure can be dense in some ways, and at times (always & oft-times).
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Old 26-02-2008, 07:06   #52
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Thank you for the clarification. I am fairly new to the sailing market and may ask questions that have answers that are understood to the experts.

Regards,
Skye
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Old 26-02-2008, 11:16   #53
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A "mono hull" has just set the unofficial world wind powered speed record of 50kts :-0
It is unofficial because the guy was using a GPS that was not recognised as being accurate enough for the record keeping and the course was not a measured distance and a few other things.
Hey please note the wink wink nudge nudge. ;-) ;-) :-) as there is a slight catch to this story.
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Old 26-02-2008, 11:30   #54
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Yep, probably a wind surfer. Some would argue they're not even boats - even IF they are hulls.

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Old 26-02-2008, 12:01   #55
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A "mono hull" has just set the unofficial world wind powered speed record of 50kts :-0
It is unofficial because the guy was using a GPS that was not recognised as being accurate enough for the record keeping and the course was not a measured distance and a few other things.
Hey please note the wink wink nudge nudge. ;-) ;-) :-) as there is a slight catch to this story.
Alan
Do you mean this guy??
Has the 50 knot speed barrier been broken or not?
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Old 26-02-2008, 12:20   #56
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A "mono hull" has just set the unofficial world wind powered speed record of 50kts :-0
It is unofficial because the guy was using a GPS that was not recognised as being accurate enough for the record keeping and the course was not a measured distance and a few other things.
Hey please note the wink wink nudge nudge. ;-) ;-) :-) as there is a slight catch to this story.
I was kind of wondering who would make that connection. Not that a windsurfer has much to do with cruising other then it is a fun diversion to carry aboard.

We met Finian Maynard in the BVI's, he is very pleasant and affable.
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Old 26-02-2008, 12:38   #57
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I was kind of wondering who would make that connection. Not that a windsurfer has much to do with cruising other then it is a fun diversion to carry aboard.

We met Finian Maynard in the BVI's, he is very pleasant and affable.
Joli, he is a German (Tilmann Heinig) Kiteboarder almost the same but even less of a hull than a windsufer, not sure where we put him, but I suppose in the mono hull section as he has only one floating bit.
Must have strong arms and legs!!!!
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Old 26-02-2008, 13:37   #58
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Joli, he is a German (Tilmann Heinig) Kiteboarder almost the same but even less of a hull than a windsufer, not sure where we put him, but I suppose in the mono hull section as he has only one floating bit.
Must have strong arms and legs!!!!
If he is built like Finian Maynard then he must be a big man. Finian was quite large and looked very capable of holding the sail in just about any wind.
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Old 26-02-2008, 13:39   #59
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Normally a monohull sailor, but have made 6 trips between the Chesapeake Bay and Spanish Wells on a friends Norseman 43 and now Dolphin 46. The 43 slammed a lot, but we did routinely hit 14kts in 25-35 kt winds (surfed at over 21). The Dolphin seems to hit 13 easily in 20 kts with the screecher, and last spring we went from mid-Chesapeake to Spanish wells in 100 hours and 30 minutes (don't remember the average speed but easy enough for those with a chart to work out); much more comfortable boat than the Norseman.

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Old 26-02-2008, 14:26   #60
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Do not forget the Norseman 43 presently the Voyage 44was designed by Simonis almost 20 years ago and time does make a difference the Dolphin is a 8 year old design first came out as a 43 ft cat she has a lower weight , carries more sail and has a real bridgedeck clearance unlike the 43/44 Greetings
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