How does a cat become too heavy?

[barnakiel]

Is performance your concern at all? In a Leoprad? C'mon now!

The designer establishes the light mid- and full (loaded) displacement. Stick with it.

Huge water tanks are a huge plus. They are light when they are empty btw. Washing machines are available in every launderette. A 15' rib with a 80hp outboard is a choice. Anchoring kit is hardly ever any weight issue. etc etc

Live by your choices. If your waterline is at your gunnel and you are happy with that, I am fine with that too.

Cheers,
b

[Saleen411]

Originally Posted by Southern Star

There is no question that weight is the enemy of performance in any catamaran. However, for us, comfort and cost savings often trump the need for speed. consider the following:
1. Spares. We brought one spare starter motor (already used), a spare alternator, voltage regulator, spare wiring, connectors, belts, filters, plumbing connectors, hose, clamps, s/s screws, bolts, washers etc. I am glad we did not only for convenience, but because availability is very limited and the cost of these items in the Bahamas can be multiples of what they are in North America.

2. Ships stores: Beer is $40. a case and up in the Bahamas, much less than half that in the US. MIx and wine are also much more expensive here. As a result, we stocked up on three months of all of these prior to departing the US.

3. All chain rodes and 'oversized' (let alone spare) anchors add weight, but your ground tackle is your most important insurance.

4. Water: Heavy, but water is 40 cents a gallon and up in the Bahamas. If you have large tankage, why wouldn't you fill up prior to departure?

5. Washer/dryer: Even at 150 pounds, we are considering adding one and not only for convenience. Laundromats in the Bahamas generally charge about $5.00 a load for both washers and dryers and fequently have old equipment that can stain and damage clothing.

Everything in and about boats is a compromise and we have chosen to sacrifice some performance for reasons of comfort and economy.

Brad

Speaking of performance.....Wasn't it posted that a cruise loaded performance cat only averages about 1 knot faster than your basic everyday (similar sized) condomaran?

Personally, I would gladly give up that 1 knot for extra room and comfort since will be on the hook 90% of the time anyway. Bring on the luxury items baby!...make the admiral HAPPY! Maybe even add that extra special 500 pound mattress that some have talked about.

[jrbogie]

if you don't think the extra weight that is often carried by 40+ foot live aboards is worth shedding for increased performance, and even piss and moan about such nonsense on a sailing forum, then by all means load her up. me? i'll pay attention to every pound that comes aboard because sailing to me is all about performance whether racing or cruising. but then i'm a purist in many of my pursuits.

[gazzas_uk]

Its all about what you intend your catamaran for !! we live aboard ours and its got loads of kit...Water maker, Washing machine, Solar panels, TV's, Diving gear/tanks and heavy duty ground tackle...because with all this kit we can sit at anchor all summer long (and do!) and be pretty self sufficient... we don't worry about losing a knot or so on passage as she still sails more than satisfactory for us...we prefer the comfort when at anchor...and remember you will be spending the vast majority of your time doing just that and not sailing... I have yet to have anyone on board our cat who has not been envious of the space and home comforts we have on board..

[paxfish]

Originally Posted by Saleen411

Speaking of performance.....Wasn't it posted that a cruise loaded performance cat only averages about 1 knot faster than your basic everyday (similar sized) condomaran?

Personally, I would gladly give up that 1 knot for extra room and comfort since will be on the hook 90% of the time anyway. Bring on the luxury items baby!...make the admiral HAPPY! Maybe even add that extra special 500 pound mattress that some have talked about.

It may have been posted. That doesn't make it true!

I know my 28' cat will plane when light and get up in the high teens. It won't plane when I have a 8 buddies on board with all their gear and a cooler of beer....

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by tomfl

While I have no doubt performance will take a hit if a boat is overloaded I am even more sure the guy trimming the sails and playing with the wheel/tiller is more important to how fast the boat sails.

Back to the OP's issue I would point out that a well designed boat has what I will call an optimal water line. Overloading a boat can cause that water line to be too low; but a boat can also ride to high as well. While a race boat is most likely designed with minimal (or no) water tanks a cruising boat may well be designed to sit in the water with significant water in the tank.

There are a lot of factors which determine boat speed. Racers are constantly trimming sails and tweeking the rudder(s) while cruisers often want to set the AP and kickback and smell the roses. The biggest difference I notice on my boat is after I have cleaned the bottom. The longer you sail your boat the better feel you should get to what makes your boat sail fast. Lowering weight is only one factor. One thing not mentioned so far is how much weight you can save by replacing out a conventional head and holding tank with a composting head. Depending on how large the holding tank is you may well save a couple of hundred pounds or more. Not to mention eliminating a couple of thru hulls which will make the hull at least a little bit cleaner going through the water.

Aside from a boat's design, weight is the primary determining factor regarding under what circumstances a boat exceeds it hull speed. The lighter it is, the sooner this happens. Especially in multihulls. And the only time empty tanks hurt performance much, is when water ballast isn't being optimally used.

There were a few designs that were exceptions to the lighter is faster rule, back in the 70's. Maxi's which in certain conditions sailed faster when they were heavier. And then only by a narrow margin. But such designs are far from the norm, & I don't know that they exist in multihulls.

Yes, trimming & driving are huge when it comes to overall boat speed. And good nav/weather routing play an even bigger role when making passages (racing or cruising). However, reducing a boat's weight is a no brainer type way to aid her performance. So why not take advantage of it?

As an example of an easy way to reduce weight. If you have a watermaker & 200gal tanks. Dump everything but 1gal/person/day for the planned length of the passage, & then make enough to refill your tanks when you get to your next destination, or just prior to this. Which if you're lighter by 150 gal, that's 1,200lbs. Quite a bit of weight in anyone's book.

[Saleen411]

Originally Posted by paxfish

It may have been posted. That doesn't make it true!

I know my 28' cat will plane when light and get up in the high teens. It won't plane when I have a 8 buddies on board with all their gear and a cooler of beer....

I should have added "With citations" ( new buzz word of the week)

[iliohale]

Catamaran hull shape is critical to the discussion of performance hit from weight. On a percentage basis, a 10% of boat displacement additional weight load on a Lagoon will will have a much lower impact on performance then the same percentage load on an Outremer. This is simply a factor of wetted surface area. The fuller hull shape on a Lagoon will do a better job of holding the weight. Further, that 10% of displacement on a Lagoon is equal to more weight because of the higher unloaded displacement.

Long story short, if you have a performance oriented cat then you need to be significantly more focused on weight management.

[dwedeking2]

back on topic

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by John_Trusty

Too much cat food? - somebody had to say it.

You beat me to it.... me-ow!

Seriously though, I often sail alone. My water tank cracked, so I keep it empty (bottled water instead, and not that much). I keep the head waste tank empty on principle. Not only does it make for a quicker, agile boat, but its tidier too (less stuff). Its nice once in a while to have a bunch of guests (and all their associated crap they bring along), but I really notice the boat sitting lower and going slower. I sail a mono, but it still applies.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Saleen411

Speaking of performance.....Wasn't it posted that a cruise loaded performance cat only averages about 1 knot faster than your basic everyday (similar sized) condomaran?

Lots of stuff gets posted here. Most of it is laughable.

[fuentes]

Ahy. Amigo. I like my boat as I like my woman. Built for comfort, not for speed.

I just know I am going to catch hel- for this.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by minaret

To remember- "A pint is a pound the world around".

Strange, I was taught many, many years ago that "a pint of pure water weighs a pound and a quarter". AFAIK, that's still true today.

[Kelkara]

Originally Posted by StuM

Strange, I was taught many, many years ago that "a pint of pure water weighs a pound and a quarter". AFAIK, that's still true today.

Stu ... in those intervening years the world has stopped using pints to measure pure water ... except in the USA, where their pints are smaller ... so the only pints of water left in "the world around" today weigh a pound.

Now a pint of beer is a different beast altogether.

[rabbi]

Pint? Yet another strange measurement unit. I just learned its 28.875 cubic inches or 473.176473 millilitres.
It always puzzles me to see these medieval units made it into the modern age.


Back to the topic: Its all about what you want to do. If you want some performance, keep her light. If you want cool drinks & cabins, load her up with a ton of gear & fuel.