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Old 13-05-2014, 18:19   #16
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Re: how common is pitchpoling?

I suspect the metrics for a broadside knock-down are about the same for a pitch-pole. If the wave exceeds a height X times length - anything may happen.

I have pitch-polled many Hobie cats of different size but have been unable to do so on my Tornado or on my friend's Prindel in any wind. Both the Tornado & Prindel have massively larger displacement forward and higher bows AND the prows are progressively wider at deck level. The result is that it is very difficult to submarine these boats. The Hobie and many other cats have the reverse features (narrowing at deck level) and are perfectly content to operate under water as a high drag torpedo.

The larger (cruising) cats are often more like the Tornado, presenting a lot of buoyancy as the bows are driven down. Additionally, these boats have rigs greatly under powered compared to beach cats. If you are considering a hot racer, built as the Volvo 40s or the America's cup cats with bows that narrow at deck level, then there is increased potential to drive the bow below water.
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Old 13-05-2014, 18:23   #17
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Re: how common is pitchpoling?

Since this thread was started in 2008 how many have pitchpoled?



Not very many.
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Old 13-05-2014, 18:32   #18
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Re: how common is pitchpoling?

I have, but only down the companionway.

Coops.
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Old 13-05-2014, 19:00   #19
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Re: how common is pitchpoling?

Hi MAXINGOUT (Dave);

I like your bow chainplates & just wondering what the vertical piece with the hole in it at the rounded front section is for? I read that you protected your cutline from pumice and other floating objects by lashing an oar down through your bridle ss "loop", so is that what the "vertical piece with hole" is for?

How did the oar protector work out? Did it stay in place?
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Old 13-05-2014, 19:46   #20
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Re: how common is pitchpoling?

My impression it is very rare in mono or multi. A smallish Cat survived the Queens Day Storm while some large mono's pitchpoled. Which really doesn't mean a lot.. I guess there is a theory that 40+ cats are better, but I doubt there is anything to back it up. Anyone know?
Rolling more common and often due to laying ahull or broaching out of control I think.
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Old 14-05-2014, 14:54   #21
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Re: how common is pitchpoling?

I'm far too busy capsizing to have time for pitchpoling.
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Old 14-05-2014, 15:19   #22
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Re: how common is pitchpoling?

The very best way to understand the dynamics of a cat is to spend an apranticship on a Hobie 16 or equivalent. Not just nice days; go out when good sense would have you on the beach. You get a feel for what it takes and what it feels like just before things go pear shaped.

I'm sure my expereinces make me an overly causious sailor. I know my current cruising cat can take VASTLY more than my beach cat. And I also have great confidence that I can feel the combination of wind, balance, and waves that could lead to trouble LONG before I need to do anything.

The thing that gets most cat sailors in trouble is carry too much sail down wind. The boat accelerates far past hull speed, the wind feels moderate, they catch a wave and slow, and suddenly they get the full force of the wind. If they had been prudent and carried no more than they could carry up wind strapped in tight, this is nearly always avoidable.

Yes, I've heard the stories of them becoming airborn in extream storms. Generally there is not enough detailed information about point conditions (local microburst?) to make musch of it. I've seen 60kn at anchor and shee didn't wigle, and motored into 45kn (sheltered waters) without the folks inside realizing the wind was blowing. Lighter boats? I chased after my Prindle as it tumbled down a beach once, but even that took major wind and most stay on the beach all year.
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Old 14-05-2014, 17:30   #23
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Re: how common is pitchpoling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB_in_Fla View Post
Specifically to the 35-45 foot range catamarans. I have been told the larger ones don't have much of an issue. I am assuming the captain is competent and the boat is one of the production cats (FP, Lagoon, Privelidge, etc.). Is this something that pretty much requires and screw up to have happen or can wave conditions out of your control do it? And more importantly, how often do you hear of it happening?

No flame war, I am not a mono-only guy, just trying to see what others personal experience has taught them concerning this topic. Thanks!

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Happens about twice a day--fairly common -lots of fun on the POLE!'pitching on the ole pole!
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Old 14-05-2014, 18:21   #24
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Re: how common is pitchpoling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
I'm far too busy capsizing to have time for pitchpoling.
ha!
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Old 15-05-2014, 07:55   #25
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Re: how common is pitchpoling?



I always loved this video. It's not a cat. That poor crew, a ton of speed, then the all of a sudden the stern tries to pass the bow.

Sent from my SCH-S738C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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Old 15-05-2014, 11:56   #26
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Re: how common is pitchpoling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
I guess there is a theory that 40+ cats are better, but I doubt there is anything to back it up. Anyone know?
I'm quoting from distant memory here so bear with me, but I believe that stability increases by the square of the beam. Once cats get above 40' they become very hard to capsize.

Another often quoted rule of thumb is that for wave induced capsize you need a wave equal to or greater than the beam of the boat. Since most cats are roughly twice as long as they are wide they are that much harder to pitchpole.
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Old 15-05-2014, 13:16   #27
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Re: how common is pitchpoling?

Actuallly, a cat with a greater BWL to LWL ratio will be less suceptible to capsize but more susceptible to pitchpoling, all else being equal. I'm with 44C, of course, most of us are so busy capsizing that we have not had time to experiment with a pitchpole, - although at times it may be difficult to differentiate. For example, if we bury only the leeward bow, it may possible to flip over on a diagonal axis. Cartwheeling anyone?

Brad
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Old 15-05-2014, 13:24   #28
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Re: how common is pitchpoling?

I just came in off the 40foot Cat. I was fine till I put the sails up and switched on my tablet. Pitchpoled twice in the marina!

Switched off the tablet and lowered the sails.. it didnt happen again! Weird that. Will just sit on it making coffee next time.
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Old 22-05-2014, 23:59   #29
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Re: how common is pitchpoling?

In about the last 3 or 4 years, I've noticed a major reduction in the pure nonsense that used to go around about catamarans falling over.


For FP, Lagoon, et. al, it's essentially impossible to do.

It is, however, possible to run one up on a reef and grind it down to a nub, like a block of cheese on a grater.
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