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Old 14-03-2016, 11:51   #16
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Re: HIgh Latitudes in Catamaran?

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Originally Posted by Factor View Post
This high enough?

Seawind in Alaska

I was also talking with some people in an Outremer in Puerto Natales who were off to Antarctica recently.

I think, but could be wrong that the only boat to sail the northwest passage (in modern times) is a multi (Corsair Tri) and if its not the only boat its one a a few.

The people telling you you must have a mono have never sailed a decent multi.
There have been some impressive transits of the Northwest passage in recent years.

A young Aussie couple are currently the youngest and first gaff rigged sloop to complete the transit. Search for Teleport on Youtube.

They did encounter ice but the boat was more stressed on the hard during winter.

I see no reason you need a monohull over a cat. No typical monohull sailboat is going to have enough hull strength, power, fuel capacity or prop gearing to icebreak.

Skip Novak's videos are also worth watching. He is based down near cape horn.

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Old 14-03-2016, 12:47   #17
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Re: HIgh Latitudes in Catamaran?

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Originally Posted by gilligansail View Post
Hi, I would love to hear from anyone who has experience with high latitudes in a Cat. I plan to do some sailing in the North Pacific as part of a 2 year trip. I've seen a couple blogs of sailors with Cats that went far north and far south. Most advise I get is to go with a monohull. Sharing any first hand experience on a Cat in High latitudes would be appreciated.
Thanks Stefan
North coast is decidedly different in winter or summer. As you head North from Vancouver Island you'll find less and less 'stick boats' (so called as they hardly ever have sails up), once up in the Prince Rupert area and North the winter doesn't see many sailboats at all. Welded Aluminum or steel work boats with good heating systems are just about all you see out on the water. Pilot house sailboats that can handle a week or two of solid rain and sleet are also found now and again usually motoring. There are two types of wind; Not enough and too much, and since it blows down or up the channels you've got a 50% chance of wind on your nose. It would seem a mono would be able to shake a few feet of snow off the deck a little easier, just by way of tipping and scooping. Tarps are de rigour for the rainy season.

Summer is a different story altogether. Although not many ports have haul out facilities that could handle a large Cat, I'd think the ability to beach during a tidal swing would be a huge advantage for a cat, and on a warm summer day a catamaran would be the perfect platform for exploring the islands and channels.

Winter not so much;


Above (brother in law's trawler) is just one more reason to head south for winter. Fifty years of that has made me a little jaded. Sorry I can't help with first hand cat knowledge, but honestly I can't see many disadvantages. Run what you brung.

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Old 15-03-2016, 18:25   #18
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Re: HIgh Latitudes in Catamaran?

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Yes, svLibellule made the NorthWestPassage (2013) and went back via Cape Horn.

NW Passage | NW Passage

and yes, she was a bit Kevlar enforced.

Fair winds
Martin
Yes thanks Martin, I've seen their blog. Are you one of the folks who was on svLibellule?
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Old 15-03-2016, 22:44   #19
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Re: HIgh Latitudes in Catamaran?

Thanks for all your input.
I have sailed from Svalbard to Norway and live in the PNW so I have experience sailing in the cold. Not much with ice and only one trip in Belize for 1 week on a cat. I have been given advice that cats are not good for the high latitudes and monohuls are better. I want to circle the pacific so most of the time will be in warm climates. I'm currently thinking an Outremer is the best choice.

Thanks again
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Old 15-03-2016, 23:22   #20
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Re: HIgh Latitudes in Catamaran?

As a cat owner in the PNW I would be interested in the reasons you were given as to why a mono would be better.
Most cruisers would not plan the trip out to the Bering sea in the middle of winter so you are not likely to run into pack ice.
Bergie bits from around the glaciers and anything similar would, in my mind, require the same degree of caution in any boat.
Yes you have more volume to heat but the same can be said for doing the trip in a 30 foot mono or a 50 foot mono. The upside of that is when the weather turns grey and raining, which it is likely to do, you have more space inside to stay inside dry and warm.
There are a lot of "stick boats" around here when the highs set in. Lack of wind or wind on the nose will be issues and a cat might, with 2 engines, have more engine power to maintain decent boat speed in adverse conditions.
Generally speaking you will have shallower draft that will allow access to different and potentially better anchorages. Keeping mind tidal swings increase with latitude
As has been stated many times there is no such thing as a perfect boat. Every boat is a set of compromises. If a cat is what works for you, as it has for us, I say go for it.
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Old 16-03-2016, 05:14   #21
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Re: HIgh Latitudes in Catamaran?

If you never sail in pack ice or heavy slob ice as it is called here in Newfoundland you won't have a problem. Speed wise a cat would rule because in many cases the weather window is so short. The Labrador coast clears of ice in late June to mid July and once well north you will get more ice forming as early as September.

My only experience with this is through power cats that became a fast fad here about 15 years ago and soon disappeared when the limitations were realized.
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Old 16-03-2016, 06:00   #22
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Re: HIgh Latitudes in Catamaran?

Almost all types of boats have been sailed on high latitudes but obviously some are more suited than others.

As it has been said the bigger possibility of bad weather makes a bigger cat more adequate (bigger stability) and the possibility to find ice an aluminum one better.

Garcia that also makes aluminum monohulls specially fit for that type of navigation has now a aluminium catamaran specially adequate for what you want:
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Old 16-03-2016, 09:42   #23
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Re: HIgh Latitudes in Catamaran?

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Originally Posted by gilligansail View Post
Yes thanks Martin, I've seen their blog. Are you one of the folks who was on svLibellule?
Ahoi Stefan,
you're welcome.
And no I wasn't one of them but as a Swiss (CH) sailor myself I was interested in in their progress.
A few years ago I run aground in the dessert (AZ) and I'm working hard to get unstuck by lightening the load (selling a lot of stuff).
I guess (hope) in a few more months I/we should be light enough to float again.
I wish you all the best for your Pacific adventure.

Fair winds and following seas
Martin
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Old 19-03-2016, 06:12   #24
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Re: HIgh Latitudes in Catamaran?

IMHO as a cat sailor ice sailing requires purpose built cat and my personal choice of construction materials in this case will be aluminum (thick one). It would not be Garcia this time, sorry.
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Old 19-03-2016, 07:37   #25
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Re: HIgh Latitudes in Catamaran?

I am not sure if Aluminium cat is the right answer.. Kevlar probably is. I had met a german guy who hit something with is custom made aluminum 60 ft cat (a whale or container) near Azores in the middle of the night. He said, they sank in a matter of minutes and the boat was lost.. I am not saying that it would have been different story if he hit with a GRP boat but just aluminium cat may not save you if you hit an iceberg with 6-7 kts of speed..
Check this out ..





Cheers


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Old 19-03-2016, 08:14   #26
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Re: HIgh Latitudes in Catamaran?

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but just aluminium cat may not save you if you hit an iceberg with 6-7 kts of speed..
Yeloya
Hi, Yeloya,

If Your above somehow refers to my post above, I can only say that I was talking about thick aluminum hull, say 12 mm on her bottom/10 mm sides for 50ft size.
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Old 19-03-2016, 08:38   #27
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Re: HIgh Latitudes in Catamaran?

Catamarans might work in northern latitudes but not in pack ice. If you haven't been in pack ice you probably don't have a concept of how much pressure wind or tides can exert on the boat. At this point you have two things facing you. First you can ride upon the ice and be carried. If near shore or shoals this brings a whole new set of issues. The other option involves getting crushed. The required strength isn't able to be built into a boat that is sensible.

This doesn't even begin to address the question of ice jamming between the forward hulls. Can't reverse either as it closes in very fast and backing exposes rudders and props to damage. The physical properties of the catamaran are about as bad as could be designed for ice. You can cruise them up north if you avoid ice. ..a dicey proposition.

We use a 100 ft tugboat in northern Newfoundland and Labrador and we'll into the Arctic. It has steel 1.25 inches thick, massive frames and the torque of a 10 foot prop and still rely upon ice breakers to get through ice that be prevalent until June and July in these areas. Right now it extends to about 200 miles from shore and has moved south to near St. John's.
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Old 19-03-2016, 12:12   #28
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Re: HIgh Latitudes in Catamaran?

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Originally Posted by yeloya View Post
I am not sure if Aluminium cat is the right answer.. Kevlar probably is. I had met a german guy who hit something with is custom made aluminum 60 ft cat (a whale or container) near Azores in the middle of the night. He said, they sank in a matter of minutes and the boat was lost.. I am not saying that it would have been different story if he hit with a GRP boat but just aluminium cat may not save you if you hit an iceberg with 6-7 kts of speed..
Check this out ..
...

Cheers
Yeloya
Not saying it is the right answer and it also depends how an Aluminum boats are built. Doesn't say much about that Aluminium cat to have sunk because that should not happen. The Garcia 48 has waterproof bulkheads to prevent that and many other items that regards safety like waterproof doors.
SC 48 par Garcia Yachting - Pierre Delion/ Architecture Navale

There is no absolutely safe materials on hulls regarding collisions but I would say steel is the best and a long experience with voyage boats proved that aluminum was superior to fiberglass in what regards impact.

Kevlar is used as localized impact protection for many boats but I would not be able to say if a full hull made with kevlar, or a similarly resistant composite, would be netter or worse than aluminum but I know that it is very hard to work regarding built and repair.

I only know one production boat made that way regarding the use in extreme conditions with ice, this one:


Comar, the shipyard, also makes cats so they would be able to do a cat in that material, but it is not only the hull that makes a boat specially fit to high latitude sailing.
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Old 19-03-2016, 23:34   #29
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Re: HIgh Latitudes in Catamaran?

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Originally Posted by gilligansail View Post
Hi, I would love to hear from anyone who has experience with high latitudes in a Cat. I plan to do some sailing in the North Pacific as part of a 2 year trip. I've seen a couple blogs of sailors with Cats that went far north and far south. Most advise I get is to go with a monohull. Sharing any first hand experience on a Cat in High latitudes would be appreciated.
Thanks Stefan
Stefan,

There's no reason not to sail the North Pacific in a cat and I would be curious to know why anyone would think that there would be. We found our cat to be very comfortable and safe sailing from Japan to Alaska. We sailed as far north as 61 degrees and found the usual advantages of a cat applied there as well. The only time we wished for one less hull was when threading through bergy bits, but we never hit one. At least none that counted. You may find our blog worth a look on a rainy day.
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