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Old 06-12-2013, 23:34   #46
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Re: Herding Cats -- Cat Builder Co-op

that maltese is a beautiful cat, but I have to ask.. whats up with the square cabin? powercat?
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Old 07-12-2013, 13:32   #47
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Re: Herding Cats -- Cat Builder Co-op

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Originally Posted by Maltese52 View Post
There seem to be some valid points made by both sides here but having been involved in a fair share of refits and builds myself I agree that there is a lot that can be done if you are committed to making it happen and willing to make the sacrifices to get there. Getting a few people to equally commit is where i see the problem mostly. I'd be happy to help by donating our hull plug to this Co-op team but thats only part of the battle.
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Attachment 71646

Attachment 71645
That's a fantastic, and very generous offer! It will save many hours of work.

I'd expect to see the co-op's first finished boat launched in a couple of weeks now.
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Old 07-12-2013, 13:47   #48
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Re: Herding Cats -- Cat Builder Co-op


I did get a PM about the plug not 10 minutes after that post. You never know he may be one of these doers not dreamers ??

In either case he has quite a ways to go before seeing anything launched...
Surely there are benefits of the Co-op idea but personally seems like an additional challenge to the whole boat building process.

There were times I couldn't get my crew to agree on things and I was the only boss making the rules. Can't imagine two or three bosses..:bang head:

However I'd be happy to help someone out in their endeavors...
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Old 07-12-2013, 14:01   #49
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Re: Herding Cats -- Cat Builder Co-op

I agree wholeheartedly regarding the human factor. I've been in the trades (construction/fabrication) for 20 years now and human issues are constantly playing a role in the timeline/quality of jobs. I just posted this in a thread I started, but I guess i should have posted it here.

(and no, I still havn't made a decision on that salvage project cat in florida)

Re: Advice on project catamaran
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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
So looking in the Cheap thread, this was quoted by Craig,


So if he admits 10 sheet of plywood need replaced, that means all of it needs replaced,
and thus this boat is floating junk.
If you want to work hard and have a clean slate to customize, come join me herding cats.

I looked at your site by the way, I understand your logic, and to a degree it is sound thinking. The one thing you dont take into account though, is the human factor. Something I have learned in 20 years in construction. Any time you have to deal with someone else, there is a great potential for loss of efficiency. Be it financial, family, personal or availability itself, there will always be some sort of issue which causes a lull in productivity. As this issue accumulates over the span of your project, does it overcome the advantage you gained by partnering up? That's something you will only know once you are done and able to look back on accurate records. You might be surprised at the results. Pick your partners very very very carefully. I have had both good and bad experiences in this area. much easier to kick a guy off a job site than it is to kick him and his half finished boat out of a yard.
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Old 07-12-2013, 14:27   #50
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Re: Herding Cats -- Cat Builder Co-op

So how old will you be in 3-4 years? Nothing personal, but you could build yourself a decent boat in that time and be off cruising. But again, I fear this is nothing but a mental exercise.

Should be able to get a sweet deal on that 52 footer in a few years. I really like the "design ideas copied from various cool designers". Except the cabin of course!
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Old 07-12-2013, 15:13   #51
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Re: Herding Cats -- Cat Builder Co-op

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Originally Posted by Maltese52 View Post
Indeed Nick,
There is a Powercat version of the Maltese called the MP52-Trawler. Developed to be the "perfect sailors motorboat". Hence the masculine/boxy look of the cabin house. Its not finished yet and I think the teak brow and railings will soften the look and add some down east styling to an ultra modern hull design. There is a growing trend in the boat industry for the commercial look as seen at the latest FLIBS show. Its designed for that 10-12 knot sweet spot cruise speed. Some renders of the concept below. info available online at maltese catamarans.
Attachment 71686

Attachment 71687
Maltese, might as well go a little further with that cabin front & rake your windows fwd at top, real commercial style.
All the best from Jeff.
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Old 07-12-2013, 17:55   #52
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Re: Herding Cats -- Cat Builder Co-op

Maltese, im curious if you have made any design changes below the waterline to use the sailing hull as a power cat.

Steve
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Old 07-12-2013, 19:19   #53
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Re: Herding Cats -- Cat Builder Co-op

Clockwork,
It all depends on your speed expectations. If you want to push the 20kt barrier you would have some squatting with the standard sailing hull. If you are content with 12-15 knot cruise then only slight modification needed to beef up transom. Hence the trawler concept we are developing gets you that 10-12 kt sweet spot with ultra fuel efficiency and limited power. Like they say waterline length rules, but the next best thing is a slim waterline.
Plenty of info on our site. Maltese catamarans.
Are you joining nimble in his efforts?
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Old 15-03-2014, 07:47   #54
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Re: Herding Cats -- Cat Builder Co-op

How is this plan coming along?

Zach
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Old 16-03-2014, 01:12   #55
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Re: Herding Cats -- Cat Builder Co-op

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How is this plan coming along?
Not much happening on the coop. I looked at the 52ft hull mold.
It is a very wide hull, which is not particularly good for my plans.
It needed too much rework to be worth hauling it back to Sacramento.

However my own personal effort I've been doing a lot of work.
Been researching some unconventional material and methods and design (for boatbuilding). Might be able to build a 40ft cat structure for about $20,000.

My herd has been growing..
I've been building my little dinghy catamaran using some of these ideas,
here is a preview of the carbon fiber BlackCat in progress. This is a very lightweight boat.

Layup in the hull mold:


Hulls done, crossbeam mockup:
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Old 20-03-2014, 20:22   #56
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Re: Herding Cats -- Cat Builder Co-op

Sharp!

Zach
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Old 28-04-2014, 15:43   #57
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Re: Herding Cats -- Cat Builder Co-op

Given the experience of the commentators here, and my own experience with having some things made in China, I would humbly suggest the following for consideration.

It is a rare partnership that works. Already the practical disagreements that have been seen on this thread, would lead me to think that personality clashes would be inevitable and damaging.

On this basis, why not build 3 hulls yourself with hired help. Do it the same method your suggesting, and then sell the 2 other hulls to offset your costs.

But before you do..... Is the hull design a tried and test hull design that will take your proposed superstructure and weight distribution? Will it pass a coastguard examination? Will it have French escape hatches for European sailing? Do you know how to and where to place these exit points?

If so. people can either take the other two hulls away, at great cost in transportation to their own locale or rent space at your location.

You can bulk buy the fitting out materials and split the cost 3 ways.

Im not seeing an advantage in a co-op excepting if everyone is pulling huge income during the build. And to be honest, if I were a member and could generate more income, Im better doing that and paying someone to build it for me.

Working commitments and expenses will be priority for each member and it only takes one job loss or calamity to rock the boat. If they have to travel to your location.... that increases their costs by that factor.

I do not believe from experience, that you can build a hull cheaper than giving the job to a professional outfit. Not when you take into acount the time.

I have myself examining the costs involved in producing catamarans in the 32-35 foot range in the UK.... but, would have the hulls and superstructure made for fitting out.

The premises, start up cost and equiment required to do it properly was prohibitive as opposed to purchasing 4 hulls at a time from a manufacturer in a timely delivery order. Dont forget, you would order or make only ONE vessel to check it for seaworthiness and functionality primarily. Why would you build 3 and all have the same faults or problems?

I would ask if you have detailed the final cost of the build per vessel and the time to completion.?
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Old 06-06-2014, 11:33   #58
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Re: Herding Cats -- Cat Builder Co-op

Launched at 00:05 this morning. New pics up in my blog.
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Old 06-06-2014, 11:41   #59
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Re: Herding Cats -- Cat Builder Co-op

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Launched at 00:05 this morning. New pics up in my blog.
Floating is good.
Great effort fella!
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Old 06-06-2014, 15:27   #60
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Launched at 00:05 this morning. New pics up in my blog.
Boat looks great!
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