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Old 15-12-2009, 14:09   #31
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Thanks will keep that in mind. Have not heard any comments about Lagoon. Are these just charter queens?
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Old 15-12-2009, 14:10   #32
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skip the South African boats as well... look nice at the dock, but-
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Old 15-12-2009, 14:12   #33
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The new charter queens are the Leopards. The older Lagoon 47's, 55's, 57's, and 570's are classics, but can cost a few more dollars.
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Old 15-12-2009, 14:12   #34
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Oh come on you have to be more specific than that. Is not the Gunboat a South African boat? Im hearing good things about them except the price... I'm looking for specific makes and models to explore and to avoid.
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Old 15-12-2009, 14:20   #35
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Purchase budget is 100-150 so given this market we look at boats offered at 125-175. Fully intending to spend the next 5 years getting things in order with respect to sails, rigging, systems, electronics. Having worked in "the industry" for some time I am able to do 90% of my own work and that 10% is crap I wont do any more like grinding bottom paint and compounding topsides. Alos have acess to wholesale pricing for most items. That being the case I certianly am not looking for a basket case simply becuase I can do the work...

A consideration for me is the operating costs of said cat while in this 5 year prep phase. I will not be able to use my current dockage nor the yard I haul at now so those costs will go up with a cat. While cruising I generally avoid marinas, and intend to continue this trait. I anticipate the first 5 years of ownership to be significantly more expensive than the second 5 although eventually big ticket items come back up again.
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Old 15-12-2009, 14:21   #36
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Just to throw my two cents in (and it may not be worth much more than that so take it for what it's worth), as someone who basically lived on Yachtworld for 6-12 months pricing cats before we bought ours this past July (our first boat - a PDQ 32 Altair Classic), I think your budget of 100-150k is going to REALLY limit your options. I know it did for us! Do a quick search and I don't think you'll find too many options in the price range.

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Old 15-12-2009, 14:27   #37
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This is where I am begining to end up unfortunately. It may mean that the cat is not our next boat but perhaps the next next boat. We know that the next boat what ever it is will likely not be our Boat to end all Boats. That is simply the way we sail. I do see the next boat as being around for probably 10 years though and in those 10 years we have some pretty blue plans... We just figure if we dont at least explore the cat now and try one out in charter we will always be second guessing ourselves for staying in a monhull. It may come down to simply not being able to afford the cat that meets our requirements but we want to be able answer that question with the best of efforts. I am going to keep looking, asking, reading, and exploring the idea.
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Old 15-12-2009, 15:25   #38
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Originally Posted by SV Escape Plan View Post
Oh come on you have to be more specific than that. Is not the Gunboat a South African boat? Im hearing good things about them except the price... I'm looking for specific makes and models to explore and to avoid.
Seems I remember something about a Gunboat lifting a hull during a seatrial in the BVI's (very bad)... could be wrong, but it might be the reason the new BVI stability rules for cats is coming into effect.
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Old 15-12-2009, 18:41   #39
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I have been on (not sailed) a Privilege 37 (she could also be 36 I won't bet). I had a very close look at that boat and found the following:

- interior was well above average - nice wood, clean, light interior, in fact the only "small" cat interior I ever liked,
- built looked first class (and was confirmed to be so by the owner),
- the owner's comment was nothing but pride and glory,

Later this boat crossed the Atlantic and now I hear they are in the Pacific.

If this is in your price range / cruising needs range, you might like to give them a look.

b.
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Old 15-12-2009, 20:07   #40
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Thanks will keep that in mind. Have not heard any comments about Lagoon. Are these just charter queens?
Check out Lagoon 37s that were made in mid 1990s. They are good boats and were built in US by Tillotson Pearson. You should be able to fine one for under $150K and they are lots of boat for the money. Good hunting.
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Old 15-12-2009, 22:47   #41
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Firstly I think I understand what you are saying but I do need to make a couple of observations

[QUOTE=barnakiel;373950]
Quote:
Explanation: judging from the two samples I have seen up close and personal, I would not recommend an OZ built catamaran, unless it was built in a well established boatyard with good run.

My concern with those two boats were:
- bad choice of materials throughout the design,
- poor quality materials,
- design flaws (or building flaws - more likely).

I understand the problems was with the builders not with the designs (but I may be wrong).
From the couple of hundered I have seen I would recommend an Australian built cat, indeed I would recommend an Australian multihull, at the extreme end Boatspeed built Ellen Macarthurs record setting tri, so I think the skills do exist in Australia. Australia (and new Zealand) has a large selection of world renowned designers - the Late Loch Crowther, tony Grainger, Gary Lidgard, craig schionning, Jeff schionning, roger Simpson, Ian farrier to name but a few.

I note that the Catana is a crowther hull.

Australia has a number of designers who specialise in owner built boats like Peter Snell and his excellent range of easy cats as well as Peter Kerr, Ray Kendrick and others.

Australia has a large selection of custom builders with excellent reputations, eg Stallion Marine.

Quote:
If in Australia there is a cat builder that turns out cruising cats by numbers (like say Lagoon or FP in the EU) then I believe they will be equally good.
Like for example Seawind Cats, who regularly win export awards, and have produced hundreds of crusig cats, msot of which still sail today. And Lightwave who have produce a very succesful range of 38 and 45 foor cats as well as race winning 9 metre sports cats.

I am clearly biased but the build quality of a Seawind is well in front of a lagoon.

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Originally Posted by SV Escape Plan View Post
Bit of a broad brush but I thinkI get what you are trying to say. There are no serious production cruising cats coming out of OZ that can compete with the volume of FP, or Lagoon
.

See above - Seawind and Lightwave may not be at FP and Lagoon volume, but they do build lots of boats. I think Sewind at present employ over 100 people so they aint small.

Perosnally if I was chooising between a lagoon and an FP it would be the latter. And in terms of South African Boats the majority have ordinary bridgedeck clearance, however the Morelli and Melvin Lepoards are a good thing I think, and the St Francis are an excellent boat (in my humble view).

Quote:
Thanks to all who have and are replying. I am getting the feeling that few here seem to have anything bad to say about the production models I started the thread with. This surprises me. I know if I put the same question to monohulls and listed hunter, catalina, macgreggor, and beneteau, hylas, wauquiez, jenneau. I would get a expect a very different set of responses
yeah - I have noticed that as well. I actually think that catalina and hunter do a reasonable boat. I have chartered both - though not owned them, and really liked the layout of the Hunter, I didnt see any glarig production problems, but I didnt go searching for them either.
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Old 15-12-2009, 23:40   #42
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I note that the Catana is a crowther hull.

.
I note that the Catana "was" a crowther hull.?

A friend recently purchased an early Catanna, and commented that the original Crowther design was much modified by Catanna and Christophe Barreau to allow for all the European necessities and he thought that the crowther contribution was mostly in name only. Any thoughts?
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Old 15-12-2009, 23:54   #43
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skip the South African boats as well... look nice at the dock, but-
Now that's a whopping generalization! Hey, you're entitled to your opinion but c'mon, on what basis do you offer that recommendation?

If you had made this comment over a year ago and, for reasons that elude me, I literally followed your suggestion to "skip the South African boats" we would have avoided buying the Admiral catamaran that we did. Fortunately, after extensive research and three bareboat catamaran charters of other brands in Caribbean waters, we underook a three week charter of an Admiral 38 directly from the private owner. We tested the Admiral 38 extensively from Panama through the San Blas Islands over a 3 week sailing trip. The boat performed flawlessly, sailed beautifully, and on that basis, we made the decision to buy her. And, yes, the Admiral is a South African produced catamaran that sailed across the Atlantic from Africa, was a liveaboard in the Caribbean for a year and a half by the previous owners and now as the current owners, my wife and I have been delighted with our ownership of this Admiral 38 for more than a year. We'll be cruising her for five months this winter and spring in the Bahamas and Caribbean and can hardly wait.

So, sorry, if this sounds defensive but based on our first hand ownership experience of the Admiral 38, your generalized statement to avoid South African catamarans, simply makes NO sense to us.
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Old 16-12-2009, 01:07   #44
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I note that the Catana "was" a crowther hull.?

A friend recently purchased an early Catanna, and commented that the original Crowther design was much modified by Catanna and Christophe Barreau to allow for all the European necessities and he thought that the crowther contribution was mostly in name only. Any thoughts?
Yep - in the late 80s early 90s Catana made a strong sales pitch that the hulls were crowther, so I am just relying on their own advertising. One look at the shape at the time saw me agree with that proposal.
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Old 16-12-2009, 04:12   #45
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Is this a general FP observation or reserved for the Athena and Antigua?
I've been aboard several 90's built Athenas and the decks felt like they were flexing when I walked on them. Also could see daylight through the hull in places when crawling in the bow locker of one.

I think in general FPs are lightly built. My boat was in bareboat charter for 5 years and just before we left the fleet, one of the charter co engineers asked me how many hatches I'd had to have replaced. This seemed a strange question as I'd had none replaced so asked why he asked. The answer was that he often had to replace hatches on the FPs as the flexing cracked the acrylic. The fleet contained Athenas, Bahias and Belizes so it wasn't a problem confined to one specific model. Don't know how the more recent Lavezzi, Salina and Orana shape up.
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