Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 29-06-2015, 15:34   #31
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,447
Re: Helm station. port or starboard

I'm not wanting to stir the pot, but I find the forward visibility from bulkhead mounted steering stations pretty bad on many of the cats I've visited... no matter which side it is on. This has led to the raised steering stations observed on some new cats, and which I personally find unseamanlike and kinda ugly.

The Catana solution gives good visibility, but reduces comfort for the helmsman, and as noted could increase hazards. Being used to a monohull without a bimini, that doesn't bother me so much, but I gather that many cat owners really appreciate the great protection afforded by the bulkhead helms. The forward cockpit of the Atlantic series is another solution to visibility issues that seems to be unpopular with many... all in all it is a vexing problem, one that makes the port vs starboard issue seem trivial to me!

Watching the evolution of the cruising cat has been interesting to me, and I await further developments.

Jim
__________________

__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2015, 15:44   #32
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Helm station. port or starboard

For all their other positive attributes, Aussie designs really suck at helms. I bet you have seen a lot of bulkhead helms where the helmsman is expected to stare through the entire interior through 2-3 windows cut through bulkheads for visibility. Others give you a gun slit under a bimini to peek through.

However, there are designers who understand bulkhead helms and do them correctly.

But helms on catamarans are one of those compromise things that don't really occur in mono's.

Mark
__________________

__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2015, 15:58   #33
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,454
Images: 69
Re: Helm station. port or starboard

IMO my helms are a good compromise. They're next to, and on the same level as, but not in the cockpit. You're still able to lean or sit on the rear beam, you're reasonably protected by the cockpit roof, but can still see the sails. There are port and starboard helms, so can see to whichever side you need to, and you can still see through the boat, and using a nearby step can see over the boat if necessary.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2015, 16:19   #34
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ocean Springs, MS
Posts: 279
Re: Helm station. port or starboard

well as far as Catana are concerned, when the Aussie was actually designing them, the boats would probably have met your standards, Colemj: Crowther died in what, 1993? Since then, they have been designed by various Frenchmen....
__________________
jaybird1111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2015, 16:38   #35
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Helm station. port or starboard

I don't know - Catana has had some silly helm designs like the center throne/toilet. However, they had good exterior helm designs like the 401/431/471, etc. I don't know which are French designers. That picture seems a step backwards from those good designs. But even it is in a whole different universe in usability and safety than the Nautitech. That designer seems to hate people.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2015, 19:51   #36
Eternal Member
 
monte's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 3,650
Images: 1
Re: Helm station. port or starboard

Jim I can understand your comment on kinda ugly Bimini helm stations but un seamanlike is a bit strange. Do you mean they can look more like a tent than a boat? I agree they're not the most delicate design but the practicality and safety factor is pretty good. As you can see from one of our recent sails, all round visibility is pretty bloody good from this position. I agree it would be better on the starboard side because as you can see visibility is much better to port and as we are on a port tack and have to give way to starboard tack, or if motoring, the starboard sector is more important to watch. Not a huge issue as we regularly have a good look all round from the starboard aft deck as well. I doubt any other helm configuration gives quite as good 360 degree views from around a 4m from the water viewpoint. Unzipped the Bimini helm gives clear views and good situational awareness and zipped quickly gives full protection and safety from the elements. Usually on night passages the side is zipped and it's impossible to fall overboard without trying really hard. The biminis are usually optional extras so the same location and view can be possible without the tent, but the practicality of protection from the elements outweighs the visual appeal for us. I can't imagine appreciating another form of helm as much as the Bimini type unless it was something similar to C44's twin bulkhead helms. I did sail a Seawind 1000 with twin bulkhead helms and from memory they worked quite well and didn't interfere with the cockpit layout too much.

http://youtu.be/H3BMzVrTtFI
__________________
monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2015, 22:47   #37
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 23
Re: Helm station. port or starboard

or one could go for the Lagoon 440 with flybridge steering?

Check this vid, fast fwd to 2:30 to see the helm
https://youtu.be/BDCsPPecGEQ
__________________
Seafari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2015, 02:47   #38
Registered User
 
mark_morwood's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cruising (Atlantic -> Med -> Carib -> Pacific)
Boat: Vancouver 36, Hobie 33, Catana 48, now all with new owners
Posts: 205
Re: Helm station. port or starboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
I don't know - Catana has had some silly helm designs like the center throne/toilet. However, they had good exterior helm designs like the 401/431/471, etc. I don't know which are French designers. That picture seems a step backwards from those good designs. But even it is in a whole different universe in usability and safety than the Nautitech. That designer seems to hate people.

Mark
The Catana 48 from 1992 lists Crowther as the designer. I believe the "French designer" Christophe Barreau designed from then on, including the 4x1 series. Personally I like the older Catana helms better than the newer ones as they are "in" the cockpit and feel very secure (though I am biased).

With respect to Port or Starboard helms, we have both, but only have engine controls on the port side, so I dock port side too whenever I can. I see the argument for preferring the starboard side for easier visibility of starboard tackers or vessels coming from the right under power, but I think overall it really doesn't make much difference which side the helm is on. You have to keep a look out both ways anyway.

Here's a somewhat distorted wide angle photo of the stern of our boat and the helms.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	GOPR0178.jpg
Views:	114
Size:	43.3 KB
ID:	104428  
__________________
mark_morwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2015, 03:27   #39
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 10,135
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: Helm station. port or starboard

Broadblue on their 550 model solved the problem.

__________________

__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
helm

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mahe 36: Helm Station lstyles Fountaine Pajot 41 09-03-2015 21:25
Starboard Weather Helm Noreastern Construction, Maintenance & Refit 12 17-07-2013 21:09
Aft Helm Station (e.g. Nautitech) CortoMaltese Multihull Sailboats 0 08-11-2009 13:19
Raymarine C120 at Helm and Nav Station thomaswaier Marine Electronics 4 10-10-2009 19:16
Which Plotter to Use at Nav Station with C-120 at Helm? cbcat Navigation 6 28-08-2009 15:47



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:31.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.