Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 23-12-2015, 18:48   #121
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 502
Re: Helm positions

my 2 cents: few here have mentioned the vastly increased pitching motion when the helm is way aft in the boaty:: really gets to me after a few hours puuke
__________________

__________________
geoleo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-12-2015, 18:55   #122
pbr
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 186
Re: Helm positions

Quote:
Originally Posted by monte View Post
Great pic Dave. Looks like another benefit of duel helms is being able to teach hands on helmsmanship!
Pbr, don't be too offended by the term punter. It's Aussie colloquial slang for anyone, a customer, your average citizen (sometimes a gambler) etc. maybe it means something else in your neck of the woods, but I doubt it was intended as a derogatory comment.
I have sailed with plenty of Aussie's the meaning an intent was another word for neophyte and I am sure it was intended to be offensive .
__________________

__________________
pbr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-12-2015, 19:01   #123
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 3,654
Re: Helm positions

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbr View Post
I developed it from the original hull and deck that was brought from Canada specifically for me to do so. Every standard and feature came from me, I also arranged to subcontract Endeavour to build the boats and was an equity shareholder. I personally oversaw the manufacturing, sold, and oversaw the commissioning of the first 80 hulls. I also subsequently developed the Power cat with N.A. Cortland Steck. I personally hold the registered Trademark for the Manta name.

Now let's hear your version SMJ, and be careful what you say.

The original hull and deck brought from Canada was not meant for you specifically, in fact other builders in Florida had the chance to produce the Manta before you. The molds were destroyed in hurricane Andrew and I believe you pulled a mold of one of the 3 Mantas originally built by Eugene Tekatch. http://tek-composites.com/products.php. The owner of the Manta that you pulled the molds of ended up splashing a mold of another Lerouge design which became the Ocean Cat 49. Your Manta was originally an Eric Lerouge design which had been produced and developed long before you came into the picture. Now why should I be careful in what I say?


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-12-2015, 19:12   #124
Eternal Member
 
monte's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 3,650
Images: 1
Re: Helm positions

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoleo View Post
my 2 cents: few here have mentioned the vastly increased pitching motion when the helm is way aft in the boaty:: really gets to me after a few hours puuke

Geo our transoms tend not to pitch much at all. I'd say our centre of pitch is somewhere between the transom and bulkhead helm (fortunately right about the master berth)
The bows...that's another story. They can be anywhere from airborn to submerged depending on the waves. I don't think I've ever seen a cat transom raise or lower more than a few inches. What circumstances have you found increased pitching on an aft helm cat?
__________________
monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-12-2015, 19:19   #125
pbr
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 186
Re: Helm positions

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
The original hull and deck brought from Canada was not meant for you specifically, in fact other builders in Florida had the chance to produce the Manta before you. The molds were destroyed in hurricane Andrew and I believe you pulled a mold of one of the 3 Mantas originally built by Eugene Tekatch. TEK-composites PRODUCTS. The owner of the Manta that you pulled the molds of ended up splashing a mold of another Lerouge design which became the Ocean Cat 49. Your Manta was originally an Eric Lerouge design which had been produced and developed long before you came into the picture. Now why should I be careful in what I say?


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
Because you don't know what you are talking about, and I consider your statement defamatory and libelous.

I did not pull the mold after the first set of molds were destroyed. The principals called me and it was only because of my ability to place it with another builder in Tampa that they went forward with the new molds. I subsequently arranged for Endeavour, (I was a shareholder) to be the builder and the molds were moved from Tampa at that time. There were only three hulls partially completed in Canada where the project started, that were subsequently finished by the owners. One of the owners who was initially involved in bringing the molds to the U.S. left and subsequently did the other project you refer to. I personally spoke to Eric Lerouge when I took on the project, and offered him credit and royalty but he didn't want anything to do with it. We modified the molds quite a bit over the life of the project, length, headroom, etc. All the features, hardtop, sailhandling, systems, standard spec and optional specs were developed by me.
__________________
pbr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-12-2015, 19:30   #126
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 3,654
Re: Helm positions

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbr View Post
Because you don't know what you are talking about, and I consider your statement defamatory and libelous.

I did not pull the mold after the first set of molds were destroyed. The principals called me and it was only because of my ability to place it with another builder in Tampa that they went forward with the new molds. I subsequently arranged for Endeavour, (I was a shareholder) to be the builder and the molds were moved from Tampa at that time. There were only three hulls partially completed in Canada where the project started, that were subsequently finished by the owners. One of the owners who was initially involved in bringing the molds to the U.S. left and subsequently did the other project you refer to. I personally spoke to Eric Lerouge when I took on the project, and offered him credit and royalty but he didn't want anything to do with it. We modified the molds quite a bit over the life of the project, length, headroom, etc. All the features, hardtop, sailhandling, systems, standard spec and optional specs were developed by me.

How did you obtain the new molds? The originals were destroyed correct? I wonder why Eric Lerouge wanted nothing to do with it? I give you credit for making the Manta catamaran what it is today, a boat that holds it's value well and is very much in demand, but I can't give you credit as developing the Manta as the design and partial build was developed before you came into the picture. And considering my statements defamatory and libelous? Are you looking for a frivolous lawsuit?


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-12-2015, 19:36   #127
pbr
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 186
Re: Helm positions

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
How did you obtain the new molds? The originals were destroyed correct? I wonder why Eric Lerouge wanted nothing to do with it? I give you credit for making the Manta catamaran what it is today, a boat that holds it's value well and is very much in demand, but I can't give you credit as developing the Manta as the design and partial build was developed before you came into the picture. And considering my statements defamatory and libelous? Are you looking for a frivolous lawsuit?


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
I said I developed the Manta, never said I designed the hull and deck. That holds true with later projects I have done where I provide the concept and specifications and hire an N.A. to design the concept. The owners of the molds original molds from Canada approached me before they were destroyed, after they were destroyed they approached me again and at that time they made me a share holder in return for developing and marketing the design. It was through my efforts that they decided to bring the molds to the U.S.
__________________
pbr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-12-2015, 19:56   #128
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 3,654
Re: Helm positions

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbr View Post
I said I developed the Manta, never said I designed the hull and deck. That holds true with later projects I have done where I provide the concept and specifications and hire an N.A. to design the concept. The owners of the molds original molds from Canada approached me before they were destroyed, after they were destroyed they approached me again and at that time they made me a share holder in return for developing and marketing the design. I was through my efforts that they decided to bring the molds to the U.S.

My mistake. When you said developed I thought you meant from the ground up. I had friends that were involved or were trying to get involved before you showed up on the scene. There was quite a bit of history with the design pre "Manta"


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-12-2015, 19:58   #129
pbr
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 186
Re: Helm positions

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbr View Post
I said I developed the Manta, never said I designed the hull and deck. That holds true with later projects I have done where I provide the concept and specifications and hire an N.A. to design the concept. The owners of the molds original molds from Canada approached me before they were destroyed, after they were destroyed they approached me again and at that time they made me a share holder in return for developing and marketing the design. I was through my efforts that they decided to bring the molds to the U.S.
Eric didn't want anything to do with it because he said it was not the original design, it was a scaled down version from a 43 foot Jeff Cat design. He never made any claims for it.

I will accept the apology.
__________________
pbr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-12-2015, 20:03   #130
pbr
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 186
Re: Helm positions

My apologies to the board for this getting so far off track but I had to respond. I have a lot of blood sweat and tears over almost a couple of decades invested there.
Pat Reischmann
__________________
pbr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-12-2015, 20:14   #131
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 3,654
Re: Helm positions

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbr View Post
Eric didn't want anything to do with it because he said it was not the original design, it was a scaled down version from a 43 foot Jeff Cat design. He never made any claims for it.

I will accept the apology.

Eric says that about quite a few of his designs that have been copied. To be copied should be the ultimate in flattery?


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-12-2015, 20:15   #132
pbr
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 186
Re: Helm positions

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
Eric says that about quite a few of his designs that have been copied. To be copied should be the ultimate in flattery?


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
Hard to patent boat designs, the early Gunboats used many Chris White original design ideas.
__________________
pbr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-12-2015, 20:21   #133
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 3,654
Re: Helm positions

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbr View Post
Hard to patent boat designs, the early Gunboats used many Chris White original design ideas.

No doubt, but I believe there have been a few people who have splashed molds directly of one of Eric's designed hulls. I also know of one manufacturer that purchased an old Lerouge designed mold and produced a much heavier boat out of it. He wasn't happy about that either.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-12-2015, 21:22   #134
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 3,654
Re: Helm positions

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
The original hull and deck brought from Canada was not meant for you specifically, in fact other builders in Florida had the chance to produce the Manta before you. The molds were destroyed in hurricane Andrew and I believe you pulled a mold of one of the 3 Mantas originally built by Eugene Tekatch. http://tek-composites.com/products.php. The owner of the Manta that you pulled the molds of ended up splashing a mold of another Lerouge design which became the Ocean Cat 49. Your Manta was originally an Eric Lerouge design which had been produced and developed long before you came into the picture. Now why should I be careful in what I say?


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByCruisers Sailing Forum1450930925.077371.jpg
Views:	77
Size:	213.0 KB
ID:	115532

Just to show I'm not crazy!


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-12-2015, 07:15   #135
pbr
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 186
Re: Helm positions

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
Attachment 115532

Just to show I'm not crazy!


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
I know I wrote it.
__________________

__________________
pbr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
helm

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Fun: Helm Steer or Helm Tiller ? GaryMayo General Sailing Forum 57 15-05-2016 10:15
Crew Positions: Site Sticky? dacust Forum Tech Support & Site Help 2 11-02-2009 06:32
OceanLED Sales Positions GordMay Boat Ownership & Making a Living 0 14-07-2007 03:26
Available - Retired firefighter seeking crew positions Cliff Crew Archives 0 02-02-2005 21:39



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:50.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.