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Old 05-02-2015, 04:26   #16
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Re: Helia or Lagoon in light wind conditions

there is a difference between a calm sea and rough seas. I do not use the gennaker above 10 knots . my boat isn't a racing boat . It' s an appartement on the water !!
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Old 05-02-2015, 05:14   #17
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Re: Helia or Lagoon in light wind conditions

Our experience of sailing the 440 in light airs is good enough. We have yet to come across a cat (production build) in a similar class to outperform the 440 in light or strong winds. We do not use a code zero - we find the 'wind strength range' too small for this and our experience has been that winds are not consistently light enough to warrant using the code zero ... well, in the places we have sailed anyway. I would 2nd D&D comments here - we easily work on 5 knt averages but beat that with ease, even in a breeze. The 440 performs exceptionally well to light wind in the first quarter 40 - 90* and sail setting makes a huge difference. We find setting the track car of the genoa forward as opposed to aft and creating shape in the genoa works very well - and setting the main traveller car well to the leeward side and slackening the main sheet to align the boom to centre. In the end if all else fails we engage one engine with 1800 RPM sipping 2.8 l/hr for 5 knots and in no wind at all 2000 RPM for 5 knots using 3.8 L/hr. I attach a video where we sailed in light airs and also motor sailed some of the time - the 440 just cruising along steadily !!! by the way, I think folding props would help tremendously in light airs - this is something I need to get.
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Old 05-02-2015, 12:03   #18
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Re: Helia or Lagoon in light wind conditions

I don't find the seas choppy at lower winds/speeds so gennaker gives a lot more power. Our standard one works for true wind angle 90 to 160 deg. We have sailed with it fairly comfortably at about 140 deg and 33kts wind, low sea state. However I would recommend only up to about 20-25 kts depending on wind angle and sea state. It will then give about 10-12 kts but more comfortable with jib at 9 kts. With a following sea and too much sail the L450 will often surf into the 16-18 kt range and we have hit 23kts in a rip - not recommended!!! But no tendency to broach at all.

The L450 only does about 55 deg true into the wind without engine help. Then you can either get about 40 deg with jib up or best VMG of about 30 deg with just main.


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Old 05-02-2015, 14:37   #19
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Re: Helia or Lagoon in light wind conditions

Thank you for your interesting information about sailing with Code 0 and Gennaker.

IMPI, special thanks for your Video – but I have to admit: I have seen all of them already before I was a member of this forum. And I love them. They are a wonderful advertising for cruising, bluewater sailing and the Lagoon 440!

If there are Helia sailors or owners I would be very glad to hear about their experiences in light winds.

Fair winds, Uli
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Old 05-02-2015, 22:48   #20
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Re: Helia or Lagoon in light wind conditions

Helia, Lagoon, both the same in light winds. Would not make a decision on this basis.
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Old 05-02-2015, 23:13   #21
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Re: Helia or Lagoon in light wind conditions

Quote:
Originally Posted by arsenelupiga View Post
Is there any difference in gennaker help when different sea state ?

Say if 10 kn apparent you sail 5 without and 6 with gennaker in flat sea
If sea are choppy you may be doing 3.5 withhout and 4.5 with gennaker or is contribution more or less than 1 kn?
Question not directed to us, but we would echo DaveNZ's experience (adding 1kn when hoisting the gennaker) and that added knot would apply irrespective of sea state.
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Old 06-02-2015, 02:40   #22
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Re: Helia or Lagoon in light wind conditions

thanks gents. in process of buying gennaker ...

I got this idea...

Say gennaker & main on, saling 120 deg true and wind goes up suddenly to 30 kn true consistent. turn quickly towards wind direction say 170 deg and apparent wind down to say 22. Turn on engines on max, i guess speed would go to 12 kn or so and apparent like 18. Then easier to take down gennaker.

Is this viable option ?

Same trick with spi.
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Old 06-02-2015, 03:14   #23
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Re: Helia or Lagoon in light wind conditions

Quote:
Originally Posted by arsenelupiga View Post
thanks gents. in process of buying gennaker ...

I got this idea...

Say gennaker & main on, saling 120 deg true and wind goes up suddenly to 30 kn true consistent. turn quickly towards wind direction say 170 deg and apparent wind down to say 22. Turn on engines on max, i guess speed would go to 12 kn or so and apparent like 18. Then easier to take down gennaker.

Is this viable option ?

Same trick with spi.

with cats it is all ways best to run off downwind with sudden wind increase,hide the sail behind the mainsail and let the sheet go if nessacary.

turning up wind will put the geneker on the mast,forestay and spreaders and nicely gift wrap it!
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Old 06-02-2015, 03:18   #24
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Re: Helia or Lagoon in light wind conditions

Turning downwind and easing the gennaker and main should give a reasonable ride even in 30 kts wind depending though on the sea state. Forget about the engines they won't give any more speed and max out at about 9kts boat speed.

The gennaker furls very easily. Easiest with one person rapidly pulling the furling line as the sheet is eased but I have raised, used, furled and lowered solo with no problems. I changed my setup to have a ratchet block on buggy on the furling line.


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Old 06-02-2015, 03:38   #25
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Re: Helia or Lagoon in light wind conditions

great, thanks for input. Noted.

with gennaker seems there is more room than with spi, regarding wind gusts?
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Old 06-02-2015, 05:28   #26
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Re: Helia or Lagoon in light wind conditions

Not trying to hog this thread with L440 information but its all I've got! (and we 440 guys are a sharing group)

In my experience:
Up wind....

AWS less than 8kts - you'll see SOG at about 50%. Maybe 45% when it is really light
AWS 8-15kts - you'll see SOG at about 55-60% depending on how tight to the wind you are and sea state.

My screecher/gennaker is ideal in the 8-20kt range when the AWA is in the 75-100 range. The fastest speed my boat has seen other than when surfing is 12.5kt SOG in 21kts under full main and screecher at 85-90 degrees AWA in open water.

Down wind:
Best performance is undoubtedly with the ASI (mine is 155sqm).

In 8 kts TWS at 120 TWA, you will see 6.5kts SOG with AWA coming around to 75 degrees. Generally at these wind speeds the sea state is very kind.



I generally keep my boat light (fuel and water) and I have feathering autostream 3 blade props.

I suspect a similar sized FP of similar weight would be the same. I've sailed beside a L450 in lightish conditions and found its weight and hull beam worked to its disadvantage by 1 to 1.5 kts. Suspect they were more comfortable in spacious air conditioned comfort.
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Old 06-02-2015, 16:12   #27
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Re: Helia or Lagoon in light wind conditions

When I was trying to decide for my catamaran, I visited the Lagoon and FP factories and sailed the 450 and the Helia. You can see what I chose, but everyone is different. The 450 felt just right for me.

It is important to get on both boats and imagine yourself living on them. Cruisers spend 95% of their time on anchor.
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Old 06-02-2015, 17:45   #28
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Re: Helia or Lagoon in light wind conditions

Quote:
Originally Posted by boom23 View Post
When I was trying to decide for my catamaran, I visited the Lagoon and FP factories and sailed the 450 and the Helia. You can see what I chose, but everyone is different. The 450 felt just right for me.

It is important to get on both boats and imagine yourself living on them. Cruisers spend 95% of their time on anchor.
And I'm guessing you chose the Lagoon based on your last paragraph. Question is, which one sailed better in light winds?
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Old 08-02-2015, 23:04   #29
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Re: Helia or Lagoon in light wind conditions

Does it not depend on the true purpose of the boat, short or long term sailing, comfort vs cost etc, if your on any boat for an extended period of time then you will appreciate the additional space and comfort one brand will give you over the other but everything comes at a cost, be it speed or money 😃


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