Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 23-04-2015, 03:57   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Thailand
Boat: CNAM129 Eric Jean Catamaran 14.2M
Posts: 2
Heavy weather sailing

Hi All, I am a new member to this great site and would like some advice on riding out a storm on a catamaran.....and the best tactics to employ, I was previously a mono hull sailer but I think heaving to with a cat is somewhat different. Any comments on this subject most appreciated!
__________________

__________________
Swiftyacht is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2015, 04:19   #2
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,571
Images: 240
Re: Heavy weather sailing

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Swiftyacht.
__________________

__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2015, 04:55   #3
Registered User
 
UNCIVILIZED's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
Re: Heavy weather sailing

Welcome to CF!

In regards to your question(s), do some searching/reading on both sea anchors, as well as drogues. Especially the Jordan Series type drogue, in the latter's case.
There are several good publications on the use of both drogues, & sea anchors, including very extensive case studies on same (contained in said books).
- Doing your homework on these pieces of gear is pretty much required reading, especially for serious sailing on multihulls.

Also, read Steve & Linda Dashew's Mariner's Weather Handbook, as well as Surviving the Storm. Both are available for free download, though I don't have the link handy for you @ the moment. Shouldn't be hard to find though.

Plus, of course you can dig up plenty of info on here, as well.
__________________
UNCIVILIZED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2015, 05:55   #4
Elvish meaning 'Far-Wanderer'
 
Palarran's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Me - Michigan / Boat - Tenerife
Boat: 56' Fountaine Pajot Marquises
Posts: 2,641
Re: Heavy weather sailing

Hello Swiftyacht and welcome to this forum. Since you are new, you may not have used the forum's google search tab but it works great. Press the search tab and choose the second search box. I'd suggest "catamaran storm drogue".

The issue has been discussed pretty thoroughly quite a few times in the past. That's not to say another thread is bad, but at least you know there already is a lot of info on here.

You will find that sailors opinions vary quite a bit on tactic's and part of the problem is most have never actually been caught in sustained storm force wind. The suggestions keep getting passed on year after year without much actual real world use. So we all have our methods.

Mine BTW, would never involve a sea anchor or jordon series drogue as suggested above.
__________________
Not all who wander are lost

http://www.sailblogs.com/member/palarran/
Palarran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2015, 06:48   #5
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ocean Springs, MS
Posts: 279
Re: Heavy weather sailing

The Drag Device Database is now online, and this link should take you to all the catamaran entries:
Catamaran | Type of Boat | Victor Shane's Drag Device Data Base

Another good resource is Gavin le Sueur, and you might start out with his MULTIHULL SEAMANSHIP book

Rick White: MULTIHULL CRUISING FUNDAMENTALS

and good ol' Google searches find other sources, too
__________________
jaybird1111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2015, 08:37   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Thailand
Boat: CNAM129 Eric Jean Catamaran 14.2M
Posts: 2
Re: Heavy weather sailing

Thanks for all the tips everyone, I shall do some reading on the subject......
Fair Winds!!
__________________
Swiftyacht is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2015, 10:39   #7
Registered User
 
Sailorman Ed's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Boat: Polynesia 40/42
Posts: 685
Images: 15
Send a message via Skype™ to Sailorman Ed
Re: Heavy weather sailing

+1 for The Drag Device Database ,
very interesting reading.
__________________
Sailorman Ed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2015, 11:19   #8
Registered User
 
Steady Hand's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing All of 2017 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Crewing in 2017
Posts: 4,851
Re: Heavy weather sailing

Jordan Series Drogue

Interesting articles about the development of the JSD. By the way, the JSD can be "homemade" by any sailor (just requires some sewing) by following a free (open source) design. Or it can be ordered to required size from some vendors.

Jordan Series Drogue

Very interesting testing of the JSD against other types of drogues and devices. Testing report by the USCG. Make sure you read the results and conclusions.
http://www.jordanseriesdrogue.com/pd...uardreport.pdf

________________

Dashew Free PDF books on Weather:

An excellent resource that is FREE and available as a PDF (good to keep on an iPad). It has almost 600 pages of material on the subject. Impressive and helpful.

Mariner's Weather Handbook (595 page PDF)
http://setsail.com/mwh.pdf
__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Need experienced crew for a passage or delivery in Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, Med, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean anytime in 2017? I am available on 24hr notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steady Hand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2015, 12:09   #9
Registered User
 
Fog Bank's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: San Francisco
Boat: Cal 2-27
Posts: 240
Re: Heavy weather sailing

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
Welcome to CF!

In regards to your question(s), do some searching/reading on both sea anchors, as well as drogues. Especially the Jordan Series type drogue, in the latter's case.
There are several good publications on the use of both drogues, & sea anchors, including very extensive case studies on same (contained in said books).
- Doing your homework on these pieces of gear is pretty much required reading, especially for serious sailing on multihulls.

Also, read Steve & Linda Dashew's Mariner's Weather Handbook, as well as Surviving the Storm. Both are available for free download, though I don't have the link handy for you @ the moment. Shouldn't be hard to find though.

Plus, of course you can dig up plenty of info on here, as well.
Both free downloads can be found here SetSail » Blog Archive » Weather Forecasting, Storm Tactics & Successful Cruising Plus An Offer You Cant Refuse
__________________
Fog Bank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2015, 20:45   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Sydney, NSW
Posts: 673
Re: Heavy weather sailing

OK Palarran, I'll bite since nobody else took the bait.

Since you wouldn't use either a parachute anchor or drogue under severe conditions when you are scared and exhausted, what would you do?
__________________
BigBeakie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2015, 05:46   #11
Elvish meaning 'Far-Wanderer'
 
Palarran's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Me - Michigan / Boat - Tenerife
Boat: 56' Fountaine Pajot Marquises
Posts: 2,641
Re: Heavy weather sailing

BigBeakie, I'm not sure what severe conditions are. I have been in a strong gale that lasted 72 hours mid-atlantic and was scared and exhausted (completely). In short, I'll choose active storm management methods over passive every time until my will to survive ends.
__________________
Not all who wander are lost

http://www.sailblogs.com/member/palarran/
Palarran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2015, 06:10   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Sydney, NSW
Posts: 673
Re: Heavy weather sailing

Severe as in 6 meter ,or more, breaking seas, short period, perhaps with sea mounts on the route so seastate conditions expected to get even worse, and you've already been hand steering 24x7 for 2 days fore reaching into it. Like we experienced coming back from Lord Howe Island on Australia's east coast.

You WILL make a mistake when exhausted. At some point conditions dictate either running with the weather under drogue, or holding position to parachute anchor.

The other tactic that I can think of is laying ahull, and since we are on the multihull forum, I'm assuming you are not proposing that you let the boat ride beam on to short, big breaking seas?

So what is your active storm tactic under severe conditions?
__________________
BigBeakie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2015, 06:11   #13
Eternal Member
 
monte's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 3,650
Images: 1
Re: Heavy weather sailing

We havent sailed in a storm on our cat. Probably the worst conditions were our Atlantic crossing shortly after leaving the Canaries. We had a Low bearing down on us and sustained winds of around 40K and a 5m swell from the North. We felt we had 3 options to deal with the weather and also prepare for it worsening. Option 1, reef and keep sailing - a bit difficult with inexperienced crew. Option 2 - heave too, fore reach at low speeds to maintain postion and make the boat comfortable and safe. Option 3 - run with the wind and swell, lose ground but be comfortable.
We initially chose option 2 for the worst of it and were very comfortable fore reaching at 2-3 K. We were taking the swell at a slight angle to the bow, not enough to worry about sliding sideways down the waves and not too little that the bows would slam off the wavetops. Just a small amount of jib out and the helm lashed over. This worked very well and would have easily handled worse conditions so we were confident we had a good approach and back up plan for similar or worse future conditions. In the grib below we were located around where it says 'tues'. On the track you can see we were headed N at 2-3K during that period. Most of the yachts sailing with us chose to run with the wind. Quite a few sustained damage, torn sails and broken bits and also lost a lot of ground. I was concerned about the lack of searoom between us and Africa so didnt want to head downwind. We do have a series drouge on board. After weathering the worst of it for several hours, we decided conditions were decent enough to continue on course and sailed under reefed jib in control at around 8K boat speed. We were preparing for the worste and were well prepared for a lot worse conditions, which I think is the key. Its worth testing as many tactics as possible when the chance arises to see what you and your yacht prefer.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Atlantic Crossing departure weather grib.JPG
Views:	225
Size:	180.9 KB
ID:	100862   Click image for larger version

Name:	atlantic crossing departure track snip.JPG
Views:	219
Size:	67.2 KB
ID:	100863  

__________________
monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2015, 07:05   #14
Elvish meaning 'Far-Wanderer'
 
Palarran's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Me - Michigan / Boat - Tenerife
Boat: 56' Fountaine Pajot Marquises
Posts: 2,641
Re: Heavy weather sailing

Excellent execution Monte. Nice example of what did work.

BigBeaky, I didn't say I wouldn't use a drogue, just not a Jordon series drogue. Almost everyone's opinion who has a multihull has been posted on this before, including mine, several times. It seems to always lead to the same conclusion though and that is everyone does it different. Read a lot, sail a lot, and you will form your own solutions.

I totally disagree with the statement that you WILL make a mistake when exhausted. The odds go up, but its certainly not a definite. Also, the most serious problems that happen when sailing in storm force conditions seldom are due to mistakes that happened right then. Dismasting, rudder failure, and hull breaches are the biggies right? Seldom have I read about a multihull being lost due to crew exhaustion. Bad luck, bad decisions, and bad equipment - yes.
__________________
Not all who wander are lost

http://www.sailblogs.com/member/palarran/
Palarran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2015, 14:35   #15
Registered User
 
UNCIVILIZED's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
Post Re: Heavy weather sailing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
Seldom have I read about a multihull being lost due to crew exhaustion.
There are a LOT of incidences of crews hitting the "Scottie, Beam me up!" button (EPIRB/Mayday) for the precise reason that they were too exhausted & or scared to cope any more. AKA too tired to deal, & thus called for rescue.
In fact, if you really read most of these stories (rescues), Exhaustion is the #1 reason for vessels being abandoned. Not vessels foundering, or on the verge of same/sinking, loss of critical systems etc.

Actually, given what I've read (over 3+ decades, & a good bit of the time, in professional capacity), it's pretty much the exclusive reason for such. Whether you include monohulls in this topic, or not. Regardless of whether you're talking about the last 10yrs, or 50yrs.
Most of the vessels which are abandoned, wind up surviving on their on after the crew is plucked off. Unless we're talking about racing in the Southern Ocean, or similar.

Also, there's at least one member on this forum, who happens to be a catamaran sailor. Who decided to call for rescue for these exact reasons. Even after having laid to a para anchor for quite a while.
He & his crew were far from neophytes, BTW.

As to whether or not you define such incidents as vessels being "lost" is up to you. But in my book, it very much does. Particularly given that very few people in these type of circumstances at reunited with their vessels (despite them being later spotted afloat, somewhere offshore).

And, just a thought, but I'd dare say that most of the top ocean racers on the planet are advocates of & have used drogues. On mono's & multi's, with their boats usually being one's that are EASILY twice the size of anything anyone one here owns or sails. IE; Vessels which are MUCH more capable by both design, & physics, to handle heavy weather.
I mean, hell, they go out looking for it, as it gives them better wind, in order to set records/beat their competitors. And their boats are optimized for it.
__________________

__________________
UNCIVILIZED is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
sail, sailing, weather

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Heavy Weather Catamaran Sailing grantheadifen Multihull Sailboats 6 12-09-2009 08:56
Heavy Weather Sailing phatch General Sailing Forum 17 28-05-2009 10:27
HEAVY WEATHER CAT SAILING fred baldwin Seamanship & Boat Handling 6 10-10-2008 14:40
On-line: "Heavy Weather Sailing GordMay The Library 0 03-05-2004 05:07



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:22.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.