Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 24-04-2015, 15:02   #16
Registered User
 
Steady Hand's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing All of 2017 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Crewing in 2017
Posts: 4,851
Re: Heavy weather sailing

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
There are a LOT of incidences of crews hitting the "Scottie, Beam me up!" button (EPIRB/Mayday) for the precise reason that they were too exhausted & or scared to cope any more. AKA too tired to deal, & thus called for rescue.
[COLOR=#000080]In fact, if you really read most of these stories (rescues), Exhaustion is the #1 reason for vessels being abandoned. Not vessels foundering, or on the verge of same/sinking, loss of critical systems etc.
__________________

__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Need experienced crew for a passage or delivery in Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, Med, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean anytime in 2017? I am available on 24hr notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steady Hand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2015, 15:49   #17
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,459
Images: 69
Re: Heavy weather sailing

In extreme weather, I'd use a sea anchor. The boat is properly set up for one. Just intuitively, but the front end of the boat seems better suited to taking the weather than the rear end does.
__________________

__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2015, 02:23   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Sydney
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 1,104
Re: Heavy weather sailing

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
In extreme weather, I'd use a sea anchor. The boat is properly set up for one. Just intuitively, but the front end of the boat seems better suited to taking the weather than the rear end does.
yeah, yours does look like sea anchor will work.

But Lagoon, I don't think so. Too fat. However, what is does have, is tons of buoyancy and extremely strong bridgedeck.Some sort of drogue will be my choice when going to wild places. One can beam reach with these as well.
__________________
arsenelupiga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2015, 06:48   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Sydney, NSW
Posts: 682
Re: Heavy weather sailing

Palarran,

What turns you off using a Jordan Series drogue? I have never used one but was going to
Get one or make one. Haven't heard anyone else express doubts about them, so would be interested in your reasoning.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
BigBeakie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2015, 07:04   #20
Elvish meaning 'Far-Wanderer'
 
Palarran's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Me - Michigan / Boat - Tenerife
Boat: 56' Fountaine Pajot Marquises
Posts: 2,641
Re: Heavy weather sailing

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBeakie View Post
Palarran,

What turns you off using a Jordan Series drogue? I have never used one but was going to
Get one or make one. Haven't heard anyone else express doubts about them, so would be interested in your reasoning.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
I believe the Jordon Drogue is designed to keep the boat at a constant 2 or 3 knots, where a galerider or similar design allows boat speeds around 4 or 5. I think drogues are great, just not one that doesn't allow the boat to travel faster with the seas. And for me, they are easy enough to make with equipment already on the boat so I don't own one.
__________________
Not all who wander are lost

http://www.sailblogs.com/member/palarran/
Palarran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2015, 07:09   #21
Elvish meaning 'Far-Wanderer'
 
Palarran's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Me - Michigan / Boat - Tenerife
Boat: 56' Fountaine Pajot Marquises
Posts: 2,641
Re: Heavy weather sailing

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
[COLOR=navy]There are a LOT of incidences of crews hitting the "Scottie, Beam me up!" button (EPIRB/Mayday) for the precise reason that they were too exhausted & or scared to cope any more. AKA too tired to deal, & thus called for rescue.
So you read a lot of stories about crews who are caught in storm force winds, with nothing wrong with the boat, and they call for a rescue? Funny, I read the stories and don't find that. Almost all the incidents I read about are - something fails or bad decision and then something fails - and after a period of time depending on the resolve of the crew, they call for rescue.

But crew exhaustion has also been discussed here extensively so nothing new.
__________________
Not all who wander are lost

http://www.sailblogs.com/member/palarran/
Palarran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2015, 09:15   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Colorado
Boat: Morgan 44 CC
Posts: 69
Re: Heavy weather sailing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
Jordan Series Drogue

Interesting articles about the development of the JSD. By the way, the JSD can be "homemade" by any sailor (just requires some sewing) by following a free (open source) design. Or it can be ordered to required size from some vendors.

Jordan Series Drogue

Very interesting testing of the JSD against other types of drogues and devices. Testing report by the USCG. Make sure you read the results and conclusions.
http://www.jordanseriesdrogue.com/pd...uardreport.pdf

________________

Dashew Free PDF books on Weather:

An excellent resource that is FREE and available as a PDF (good to keep on an iPad). It has almost 600 pages of material on the subject. Impressive and helpful.

Mariner's Weather Handbook (595 page PDF)
http://setsail.com/mwh.pdf

Just read the USCG report. Really interesting reference article, even if it is a bit old. I never understood the benefits of a series drogue before. Thanks.
__________________
derfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2015, 15:42   #23
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,459
Images: 69
Re: Heavy weather sailing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
I believe the Jordon Drogue is designed to keep the boat at a constant 2 or 3 knots, where a galerider or similar design allows boat speeds around 4 or 5. I think drogues are great, just not one that doesn't allow the boat to travel faster with the seas. And for me, they are easy enough to make with equipment already on the boat so I don't own one.

My understanding of the Jordan drogue (or a home made equivalent) was that you could actually alter the speed you sailed at, by lengthening or shortening it.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2015, 16:15   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Winter Germany, Summer Med
Boat: Lagoon 380 S2
Posts: 1,031
Re: Heavy weather sailing

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
My understanding of the Jordan drogue (or a home made equivalent) was that you could actually alter the speed you sailed at, by lengthening or shortening it.
i think you Can make the JSD of multiple segments for different braking force but you have to decide the total length before deployment.
I don't think there is a way of adjusting the length when its out. The loads are just too high to haul it in for adjustments.
__________________
rabbi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2015, 16:37   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Winter Germany, Summer Med
Boat: Lagoon 380 S2
Posts: 1,031
Re: Heavy weather sailing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
I believe the Jordon Drogue is designed to keep the boat at a constant 2 or 3 knots, where a galerider or similar design allows boat speeds around 4 or 5. I think drogues are great, just not one that doesn't allow the boat to travel faster with the seas. And for me, they are easy enough to make with equipment already on the boat so I don't own one.
Braking force of the JSD depends on the number of cones and the amount of weight at the end.
More cones means more potential breaking force.
More weight means fewer cones are in effect, reducing breaking force at a certain speed.

You can make the boat drift faster, just add some more weight to the end of the JSD.
The problem is to balance the length, number of cones and the weight to achieve your desired boat speed without compromising the goal of the JSD: to significantly and instantly increase breaking force when a large breaking sea acelerates the boat and pull it through the crest.

The problem for me: I don't think there is enough empirical data available to really calculate this as the correct numbers depend at least windage and displacement plus maybe a myriad of other factors. No vendor has the resources to really test this.
The numbers provided by the vendors may or may not be correct, but for me its the best starting point.
__________________
rabbi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2015, 17:37   #26
Senior Cruiser
 
mikereed100's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Santa Barbara
Boat: 46' custom cat
Posts: 1,573
Images: 2
Re: Heavy weather sailing

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbi View Post
Braking force of the JSD depends on ... the amount of weight at the end.

More weight means fewer cones are in effect, reducing breaking force at a certain speed.
I have never heard this before and am having difficulty understanding why it should be so. Do you have a reference?
__________________
Mike

www.sailblogs.com/member/rumdoxy

Come to the dark side. We have cookies.
mikereed100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2015, 17:44   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Cruising the Gulf of Mexico.
Boat: 1980 Morgan 415
Posts: 1,439
Heavy weather sailing

Number of cones in effect is a function of boat speed and distance at rate.

Sink rate of 2' length of chain as opposed to 2'6" of chain?

I have 30,000+ lbs of boat during down a wave. Don't think 6" of chain is in equation.

Jordan used to be open to questions. Ask him.

His study was an interesting read and I may build one someday.

Heaving to saved the majority of affected Fastnet 79 boats if memory serves.


------------------------------
Looking for another pretty place to work on the boat.
__________________
Working on spending my children's inheritance.
Cap Erict3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2015, 18:00   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Winter Germany, Summer Med
Boat: Lagoon 380 S2
Posts: 1,031
Re: Heavy weather sailing

The more weight attached at the end the more of the drogue sinks and becomes more vertical. These vertical cones are not acting as breakes, only the horizontal ones. As the boat accelerates on a wave the JSD is straightened out and all cones coming into effect.

Check this page , also the images Jordan Series Drogue - Wave Science

With a JSD deployed the boat travels at 2kn or so. At this speed the weight at some 15kg is enough to sink a portion of the drogue.
__________________
rabbi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2015, 18:24   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Cruising the Gulf of Mexico.
Boat: 1980 Morgan 415
Posts: 1,439
Heavy weather sailing

The idea behind the drogue is to avoid pitch poling while surfing down the face of a wave and to remain stern to weather.


------------------------------
Looking for another pretty place to work on the boat.
__________________
Working on spending my children's inheritance.
Cap Erict3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2015, 00:58   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Sydney
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 1,104
Re: Heavy weather sailing

can motors in reverse be used to slow down in such situation?

I read about this tactics when cat riding out cyclone. But had fixed props.
__________________

__________________
arsenelupiga is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
sail, sailing, weather

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Heavy Weather Catamaran Sailing grantheadifen Multihull Sailboats 6 12-09-2009 08:56
Heavy Weather Sailing phatch General Sailing Forum 17 28-05-2009 10:27
HEAVY WEATHER CAT SAILING fred baldwin Seamanship & Boat Handling 6 10-10-2008 14:40
On-line: "Heavy Weather Sailing” GordMay The Library 0 03-05-2004 05:07



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:23.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.