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Old 29-09-2016, 11:22   #16
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Re: Heaving to in cat?

Jbinbi
It's exactly the same as in a mono so simply try it. It has worked for me on 3 tris and two cats in winds up to 50kts and it is as comfortable as the sea state will allow.
However it is probably not the best seriously heavy weather tactic in a cat, where the option of going as slowly as possible downwind is much more comfortable and controlled. Depends of course on adequate sea-room.
Just try it.
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Old 29-09-2016, 11:56   #17
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Re: Heaving to in cat?

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Originally Posted by AndyBerry View Post
You sound experienced. What about with sea anchor to adjust angle to wind?
Never tried that. Sounds like too much trouble for a short stop.

If I'm landing a fish I generally do NOT want to stop. I want to keep 1-3 knots forward movement to keep the fish behind the boat. and to keep the lines straight back and tangle free. The easiest way is to head-up, over sheet the jib, and ease the main. Tacking and then drifting back heaved-to, with a full spread of lures (often 5), is a great way to make tangles, IMHO. You'll be drifting over your spread. Never. But this may be a difference in regional trolling practices.

For a longer stop, I would probably use a drogue off the stern with no sail. In non-storm conditions you will be pretty slow, only a few knots, and the drogue is easier to recover than a sea anchor. The main benefit is a glass-smooth ride, compared to any quartering orientation. A very short rode (50') is suitable for rest stops in fair weather. I've done this to delay a night arrival until dawn.
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Old 29-09-2016, 14:33   #18
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Re: Heaving to in cat?

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Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
A better answer is no.

  • It is a non-functional heavy weather method. Possibly quite dangerous.
  • It is rough as hell. Cats hate beam seas, and they heave to more beam-on than monos.
  • Shallow keels makes the heading less stable.
  • Drift is faster.
Basically you can do it, but you never will because it sucks. Better to fore-reach (tiny jib in very tight, main way out) or to drift down wind under bare poles; cats do both of these well, perhaps better than monos, all things being equal.
With respect, we disagree...completely...

It's easy to do, as several others posted here already and, in our experience, very comfortable including in huge seas.

We hove to for ~24 hours crossing the Tasman Sea in very rough conditions. We were bashing into big wind and waves and everyone on board was nearing exhaustion just from the noise and jarring....then hove to and in an instant everything was quiet. We rode smoothly up and down each wave, making ~1kn pretty much in the direction we wanted until the winds backed enough to allow us to proceed more comfortably, with all on board relaxed and refreshed.
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Old 29-09-2016, 16:29   #19
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Re: Heaving to in cat?

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With respect, we disagree...completely...

It's easy to do, as several others posted here already and, in our experience, very comfortable including in huge seas.

We hove to for ~24 hours crossing the Tasman Sea in very rough conditions. We were bashing into big wind and waves and everyone on board was nearing exhaustion just from the noise and jarring....then hove to and in an instant everything was quiet. We rode smoothly up and down each wave, making ~1kn pretty much in the direction we wanted until the winds backed enough to allow us to proceed more comfortably, with all on board relaxed and refreshed.
If you were making ~1kn into wind, you weren't hove-to, you were fore-reaching - as Thinwater recommended.
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Old 29-09-2016, 16:51   #20
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Re: Heaving to in cat?

As posted by others: same basic procedure as a mono and, also like monos, some heave to better than others.

Ive hove to many times on cats, both due to weather and just for convenience.

My suggestions: furl jib slighty from size used in current wind conditions, sheet jib in tight, tack (but do not tack jib), ease main as you come thru the tack by dropping the traveller to the new leeward size, let the boat lose speed, then steer hard to windward and secure helm (my boat has hydraulic steering so no need to secure).

Boat should settle into a close reach to close haul attitude and cycle back and forth, but should stay above beam reach.

If the boat wants to lay a little too broad to wind then bring the main up a bit. It can be used like a big trim tab. As the boat falls off, the main will fill shifting the CE aft and causing the boat to head up (in attitude only...boat should not be sailing/forereaching), as boat heads up the main will luff again.
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Old 29-09-2016, 16:56   #21
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Re: Heaving to in cat?

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
If you were making ~1kn into wind, you weren't hove-to, you were fore-reaching - as Thinwater recommended.
Negative...or at least not as thinwater described fore-reaching. We had both main and genoa sheeted on hard, with the jib back-winded and the helm locked to windward.
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Old 29-09-2016, 16:57   #22
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Re: Heaving to in cat?

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Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
A better answer is no.

  • It is a non-functional heavy weather method. Possibly quite dangerous.
  • It is rough as hell. Cats hate beam seas, and they heave to more beam-on than monos.
  • Shallow keels makes the heading less stable.
  • Drift is faster.
Basically you can do it, but you never will because it sucks. Better to fore-reach (tiny jib in very tight, main way out) or to drift down wind under bare poles; cats do both of these well, perhaps better than monos, all things being equal.
Depends upon the boat of course, but Ive hove to on cats (and monos) in heavy weather with no problem and comfortably.

Beam seas are seriously uncomfortable on a cat (not much much fun on monos either), but if hove to properly the boat should not be lying beam to seas (assuming wind and seas from same general direction...as is typical)
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Old 29-09-2016, 17:15   #23
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pirate Re: Heaving to in cat?

Have hove to on an L440 in 40kts and 5m sea's.. all was okay till the luff block webbing for the 3rd reef gave way.. that was fun.. Not..
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Old 29-09-2016, 18:08   #24
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Re: Heaving to in cat?

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Originally Posted by D&D View Post
Negative...or at least not as thinwater described fore-reaching. We had both main and genoa sheeted on hard, with the jib back-winded and the helm locked to windward.
Guess it's one of those eternal terminology debates

To me, the difference between heaving-to and fore-reaching is the direction of movement. To heave-to is to set sails and rudder so that that you are drifting downwind with your bow to windward (not in to wind), maintaining a slick of calmer water upwind. If you set your sails and rudder so that you are in a similar orientation to the wind and are making slight headway, you are fore-reaching.

Others will ignore the direction of motion and use the set of the headsail as the defining difference.

FWIW, Dictionary.com says:

heave to,
to stop the headway of (a vessel), especially by bringing the head to the wind and trimming the sails so that they act against one another.
to come to a halt.

forereach
to maintain headway, as when coming about or drifting after taking in sail or stopping engines.



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Old 29-09-2016, 19:11   #25
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Re: Heaving to in cat?

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Guess it's one of those eternal terminology debates

To me, the difference between heaving-to and fore-reaching is the direction of movement. To heave-to is to set sails and rudder so that that you are drifting downwind with your bow to windward (not in to wind), maintaining a slick of calmer water upwind. If you set your sails and rudder so that you are in a similar orientation to the wind and are making slight headway, you are fore-reaching.

Others will ignore the direction of motion and use the set of the headsail as the defining difference.

FWIW, Dictionary.com says:

heave to,
to stop the headway of (a vessel), especially by bringing the head to the wind and trimming the sails so that they act against one another.
to come to a halt.

forereach
to maintain headway, as when coming about or drifting after taking in sail or stopping engines.



Fair enuf

Must admit you got me thinking about what direction we actually were moving. We were certainly 'heading' into the wind with sails all sheeted hard...and I recall all on board noting the chartplotter showing we were still making ~1kn in a direction over the ground that suited our destination, but what direction that was vis--vis the wind I can't honestly now recall.

Anyway, 'peace' indeed...
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Old 29-09-2016, 19:39   #26
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Re: Heaving to in cat?

It depends.

Leopard 44 with full big high roach main, open ocean - hard to do.

Lagoon 380 with full in boom reefing coastal waters - quite nicely
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Old 29-09-2016, 19:44   #27
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Re: Heaving to in cat?

First, I discard heaving to as a heavy weather strategy because if it is really strong--risk of capsize--it is not a safe method. The conditions described by D&D were rough, but not the sort of survival conditions many associate with heaving to. So it is a difference of conditions we envision. I am certain that in survival conditions we would agree.

Of course, the OP was wondering about fair weather, so this is actually off the point. I have heaved to in a fair weather a few times to deal with something, but more often, I just slow way down. For me, it is more stable and easier. But at the end of the day, not so different.

Another difference, perhaps is that my cat is masthead (many cats are fractional) and is driven by a 130% genoa. You do NOT heave to with an overlapping sail unless you like damaging sails; they will stretch on the spreaders. To balance properly with a reefed genoa I would need to reef the main. Thus, not a preferred rest stop method. Too much work for little gain. If my boat was fractional and had a small jib (like that in my avitar, which is not my rig) I would have a different opinion.

Comfort depends to a great extent on the angle a boat assumes. My cat does not like to lie head-up with the jib backed. If I adjust and trim it that way, given time and large waves, it will go into irons and then tack, even with the helm over. I know how, it is just a boat-specific factor. My first cat would heave to beautifully, the second to some extent, the current one hates it. But it will fore reach all day.

So while it can work in cats, it is less of a universal than for monos.
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Old 29-09-2016, 19:45   #28
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Re: Heaving to in cat?

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Never tried that. Sounds like too much trouble for a short stop.

If I'm landing a fish I generally do NOT want to stop. I want to keep 1-3 knots forward movement to keep the fish behind the boat. and to keep the lines straight back and tangle free. The easiest way is to head-up, over sheet the jib, and ease the main. Tacking and then drifting back heaved-to, with a full spread of lures (often 5), is a great way to make tangles, IMHO. You'll be drifting over your spread. Never. But this may be a difference in regional trolling practices.

For a longer stop, I would probably use a drogue off the stern with no sail. In non-storm conditions you will be pretty slow, only a few knots, and the drogue is easier to recover than a sea anchor. The main benefit is a glass-smooth ride, compared to any quartering orientation. A very short rode (50') is suitable for rest stops in fair weather. I've done this to delay a night arrival until dawn.
Thanks. I was referring to riding out a storm so, not a short stop. Appreciate your experience.
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Old 29-09-2016, 23:40   #29
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Re: Heaving to in cat?

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
It depends.

Leopard 44 with full big high roach main, open ocean - hard to do.

Lagoon 380 with full in boom reefing coastal waters - quite nicely

Lagoon 440 with full batten, square-top main and over-lapping, fractional genoa in ~40kn and ~4-5m seas -- easy and comfortable for ~20 hours. Triple-reefs on both main and genoa, of course.
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Old 30-09-2016, 12:46   #30
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Re: Heaving to in cat?

You can heave a cat about 50 feet by grasping it by the tail. .. ;o)

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