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Old 11-06-2016, 12:55   #31
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Re: Heaters for Arctic waters - Recomendations ?

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Originally Posted by Rohan View Post
Just curious myself - would a wooden, steel or aluminum yacht be better or worse than fiberglass for insulating the heat in the boat?
Bare hull the best is cored composite or wood, depending of the thickness, then fiberglass and metal hulls the worst, steel being a bit better than alu. But you really can't add insulation over wood unless it's sheated properly (glass and epoxy). Stringers and frames cause cold bridges and are pain to insulate. The insulation is best done with closed cell foams intende for this purpose as NH Armaflex to prevent any condensation inside the insulation.

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Old 12-06-2016, 01:01   #32
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Re: Heaters for Arctic waters - Recomendations ?

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Just curious myself - would a wooden, steel or aluminum yacht be better or worse than fiberglass for insulating the heat in the boat?
If you just consider the thermal properties a fiberglass boat will conduct less heat on a given thickness and area than metals.

But in arctic waters I feel safer with steel as the fiberglass may crack if frozen due to micro moisture nests in the glassed mass. Steel is real.
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Old 12-06-2016, 03:58   #33
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Re: Heaters for Arctic waters - Recomendations ?

My two bobs worth.. on a charter monohull I skippered we had a dickenson lofoten and a small webasto system. Having both was very good, each had strengths and weaknesses that complemented each other. The webasto was in the fwd cabin and the lofoten was in the salon under the table.

The webasto was quick and easy to start. Worked at sea in any conditions and circulated warm air throughout the cabin. But it chewed through the electricity, was complex and didnt provide any radiant heat or cooking ability. This was used at sea in rough conditions, and at night to keep the fwd cabin warm.

The lofoten had a big hotplate that was often used for cooking, provided lots of cosy radiant heat as long as you were near it, and the chimney guard made a great place to dry socks and gloves. It was simple and bulletproof and ran 24 hours day in day out with no real issues. It was set up with a hydronic system to heat the heads, but this had issues with airlocks and pumps.

If I had to choose one Id just go the dickenson, or similar with a hotplate. If I had the money I'd go both. Hot water bottles also work. My first trip south I hardly used the heater, just lots of warm clothes, hot water bottles and blankets.

A cat would be harder to warm, but a dickenson in one hull and a webasto type in the other should keep the hulls warm and the rising hot air will flow to the bridgedeck. Alternatively relegate one hull for storage and only heat the other, with the dickenson up in the bridgedeck under the table.

I used twin wall polycarbonate sheet to insulate the hatches on Snowpetrel. This might work over the big windows and still allow some light in.

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Old 12-06-2016, 07:25   #34
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Re: Heaters for Arctic waters - Recomendations ?

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Originally Posted by k. michael marquardt View Post
If you just consider the thermal properties a fiberglass boat will conduct less heat on a given thickness and area than metals.

But in arctic waters I feel safer with steel as the fiberglass may crack if frozen due to micro moisture nests in the glassed mass. Steel is real.
Cheers
I don't know about it cracking but very cold water will bring your osmosis on a real treat. Don't ask me how I know this.

Mind you some steels have issues at very low temps as well.

Speaking with the resident Eberspacher experts yesterday. Mine is a 30 yo simple on off one but it seems that somewhere in the not to distant past they went overboard with computer control to the extent that if for any reason the heater experienced more than a few shut downs at start up it would need a dealer's computer to get it going again. Not an issue if you are rolling through Germany in your pantechnicon but a major issue on a yacht in distant waters.

They tell me the newer ones don't have this problem.
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Old 12-06-2016, 08:03   #35
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Re: Heaters for Arctic waters - Recomendations ?

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Mind you some steels have issues at very low temps as well.

Speaking with the resident Eberspacher experts yesterday. Not an issue if you are rolling through Germany in your pantechnicon but a major issue on a yacht in distant waters.

They tell me the newer ones don't have this problem.
Shipbuilding steel properly welded is the thing for freeze and ice otherwise icebreakers and polar vessels would be made from something better.

For heating I use a Danish Reflex which are certified for Greenland and the icy Baltic in Winter. Additionally we have a Webasto for chilly mornings but these machines are tricky as are the Wallas and Espar. They dont like moisture and have a complicated soul. The computers sometimes go rogue and to reset it takes experience and time.

Out of experience I do not trust any dealer or sales representative on any topic. They want to sell and then to have the maintenance job or contract. The thing to do on my opinion is to buy the most rugged and trusted item and then a bit bigger than specified.
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Old 12-06-2016, 08:37   #36
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Re: Heaters for Arctic waters - Recomendations ?

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. . . .Speaking with the resident Eberspacher experts yesterday. Mine is a 30 yo simple on off one but it seems that somewhere in the not to distant past they went overboard with computer control to the extent that if for any reason the heater experienced more than a few shut downs at start up it would need a dealer's computer to get it going again. Not an issue if you are rolling through Germany in your pantechnicon but a major issue on a yacht in distant waters.. . .
Yes, this is the drawback of these units. They may go down, and you may not be able to get them back up without professional help, or at least, a service connector for your computer.

Mine typically runs for about two years before it cokes up and fails to start, whereupon I call in the pros. This last time was really bad because it had a bad burner tube, which three (!) different technicians could not diagnose. Cost me a lot of money, time and headache.

But they are so effective and so convenient, that I still like them. Two years between episodes is not the worst system on board.

I have bought the service connector and a spare junk unit for parts. I don't think that servicing them is actually rocket science and I intend to figure it out by the next time service is needed.


But as I wrote, in the Arctic you can't afford to be without heat, so you'd better have a backup system. Redundancy is really needed here I think. So you could have two of them plumbed in somehow (may be in series), or you could have a Refleks/Dickinson etc. pot heater besides the Eber/Webasto.


One disadvantage of pot heaters, by the way, is they are HEAVY. On a cat, that could be an important factor.
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Old 12-06-2016, 16:37   #37
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Re: Heaters for Arctic waters - Recomendations ?

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....... it cokes up and fails to start, whereupon I call in the pros. This last time was really bad because it had a bad burner tube, which three (!) different technicians could not diagnose. Cost me a lot of money, time and headache. ......
Usually there is a 'T' connection in the fuel line somewhere... turn off the main fuel supply, disconnect the line to the Espaker and stick it a container full of about a litre of kero... you will be amazed at what comes out the exhaust...
When I did it the other day my neighbour said it reminded him of being back in Santiago.

My local experts have nothing to do with the company.. they just fix stuff... one has been doing it here in Pto Montt for the last 25 years so he has seen a few.

If going with a diesel cabin heater make sure you have a good high flue

I think this is about the Mk XXXII version but this boat has been down to the Peninsula more than a few times.....
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Old 12-06-2016, 22:27   #38
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Re: Heaters for Arctic waters - Recomendations ?

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
Usually there is a 'T' connection in the fuel line somewhere... turn off the main fuel supply, disconnect the line to the Espaker and stick it a container full of about a litre of kero... you will be amazed at what comes out the exhaust...
When I did it the other day my neighbour said it reminded him of being back in Santiago.

My local experts have nothing to do with the company.. they just fix stuff... one has been doing it here in Pto Montt for the last 25 years so he has seen a few.

If going with a diesel cabin heater make sure you have a good high flue

I think this is about the Mk XXXII version but this boat has been down to the Peninsula more than a few times.....
Thanks; yes -- I've heard the same now from several sources. Seems like a "hot" tip. Will definitely have a day tank for kero for the Eber (or Ebers) on my next boat, or maybe even add to this one.
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