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Old 25-10-2016, 16:22   #1
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Happy Medium Between 80s IPs vs. Newer Production Boats?

Intro: Let me preface this by saying I have been reading this site religiously for about 6 months. I hope to be able to learn and also contribute as I grow in experience. I apologize in advance for the rambling nature of this post.

Research: I have spent hundreds of hours online looking at reviews, forum posts, youtube videos and blogs. Most recently, we spent two days at Annapolis looking at boats way out of budget but had a great time and learned alot. We have toured used Island Packets between 31 to 38 and a few used Beneteau.

Intended use: The boat will be handled by a couple and sailed locally on the west coast of FL, Keys and the Bahamas. And then will eventually be a liveaboard and departing for coastal/nearshore cruising. Maybe Panama/Mexico to the Pacific Northwest once the kid leaves and the house is sold. We aren't needing to round Cape Horn and don't need to break any speed records.

More Research: I have rebuilt several larger powerboats so I don't have an interest in an extensive year(s) long project. We are also avid scuba divers and the 35 IP appears very difficult to board over the transom, helm seat and pedestal with dive gear on or without dive gear for that matter. The accessibility of the chain plates in the 80s era IPs is also concerning. We love everything else about the IPs. I have a friend who is pushing Morgan 38 variants. So far the Sabre 38 Mk II looks like a strong contender but there are none available in Florida to view and this wasn't on my radar before Annapolis. The Hanse 371 looks interesting but rare. There are also a few 37-38ft Tartan models I'm interested in.

Our criteria:
35 to 40ft
5ft or less draft
Cutter rigged
No centerboard
Two private berths
Single head
Would prefer no sail drives
Easy boarding from water and dingy
No canoe sterns or double enders
Less than 100k after outfitting so closer to 60k final purchase price

So finally I get to my point. The Island Packet 350 sort of fixes the boarding issue. Is there anything in the style of an Island Packet or Sabre 38 with a walk through transom or was that design only reserved for the newer euro production boats?
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Old 25-10-2016, 16:31   #2
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Re: Happy Medium Between 80s IPs vs. Newer Production Boats?

I've thought similar things. Consider adding a swim platform to a Sabre 38.
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Old 25-10-2016, 16:40   #3
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Re: Happy Medium Between 80s IPs vs. Newer Production Boats?

In terms of getting into & out of the water with dive gear, you're likely better off planning to use an inflatible dink for that. If for no other reason than you'll have a lot more room for all of the necessary gear. As even without scuba gear, a swim step or cockpit can get crowded pretty quickly when several folks are getting into & out of the water.

Also, should the dinghy get lifted by a wave & then land on you, it'll be a lot less painful than were the mother ship to do the same. So you may not want having a giant swim platform to be a critical point in terms of deciding which boat you want. But run it by other divers & see what their experiences are too.
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Old 25-10-2016, 16:50   #4
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Re: Happy Medium Between 80s IPs vs. Newer Production Boats?

I've dove forever, avid cave diver, trimix etc.
If you want to dive, a swim platform like what is pictured would be the ticket, with a good, deep dive ladder, at least three rings in the water. I plan on one myself, but want it to fold up against the boat.
Getting into and out of a dink is tough, add dive gear and it's real tough.
You of course shuck the gear and man handle it into the dink, then you get into the dink, go back to the boat and hoist the gear aboard.
It doable, but much less hassle if you had a swim platform.
For whatever it's worth, I went through the exact same decision process, an 80's IP or newer more mainstream boat, and IP is a production boat, but I get your drift.
I think though you will need more money than what your planning, by the time you refit and replace chainplates, standing rigging and maybe sails, your well north of 100 K I'm afraid.
But of course that depends a lot on the refit, some want generators etc, and some don't.
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Old 25-10-2016, 16:53   #5
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Re: Happy Medium Between 80s IPs vs. Newer Production Boats?

Oh, and on my IP 38 it's closer to the water and easier especially if there is any seas to board the dinghy from the side of the boat, and not the stern, three ft seas and the stern is pitching up and down a lot.
I carry the dinghy on davits on the stern of course, but to load tanks and dive gear etc., it's easier to bring it alongside.
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Old 25-10-2016, 17:19   #6
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Re: Happy Medium Between 80s IPs vs. Newer Production Boats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WSMFP View Post
...
So finally I get to my point. The Island Packet 350 sort of fixes the boarding issue. Is there anything in the style of an Island Packet or Sabre 38 with a walk through transom or was that design only reserved for the newer euro production boats?
No, not reserved to the newer Euro designed boats but to most newer designed boats being them European or not. It just happens most of them are European.







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Old 25-10-2016, 17:22   #7
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Re: Happy Medium Between 80s IPs vs. Newer Production Boats?

Sabre 38 MKI owner here. Great boats and will comfortably take you where you want to go. (Panama to the PNW is no walk in the park for any boat, but the Sabre 38 ought to be fine... it is my plan.)

You can add a custom built platform on the boat, but it won't be easy or cheap. The Sabre is narrower than the picture above. Perhaps about 35 inches where you'd want the platform. Plus there is a concern with the platform and the open ocean. You really don't want to have big waves attempting to rip it out over and over (something that may happen on that Panama to PNW trip). You could make the platform removable, at least for the large ocean crossings, but then you'd have to find a place to store it.

I also want to toss this out there... you say you're avid scuba divers, do you want an onboard compressor? Those things take a fairly large generator, which you're not likely to find on a Sabre 38, let alone space for a dive compressor. Price we pay for being a performance cruiser (rather than those IP bathtubs!).

PS - I think your budget is right, judging from my experience. Then again, we may want completely different things, but at least you have another data point.
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Old 25-10-2016, 17:58   #8
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Re: Happy Medium Between 80s IPs vs. Newer Production Boats?

Thanks for the replies so far. I do not plan on getting a compressor or even a generator besides the Honda eu2000 that I already bought. We have traveled to places like USVI and Belize and dive shops were pretty easy to find. Even places you could dingy up to. We are also masters of bartering and plan to make friends in anchorages so I think we could be ok on air fills. I plan on bringing 5 aluminum 80s and selling my steel nitrox tanks before leaving.

The swim platform idea is intriguing. I know a very creative marine welder and a 3 or 4 step dive ladder would be a must. It would be relatively easy to put it on hinges and have it flip up and lock. Hmmmmmmmm.
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Old 25-10-2016, 18:01   #9
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Re: Happy Medium Between 80s IPs vs. Newer Production Boats?

Also, I somehow posted this in the multi hull section on accident.
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Old 25-10-2016, 18:15   #10
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Re: Happy Medium Between 80s IPs vs. Newer Production Boats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I've dove forever, avid cave diver, trimix etc.
If you want to dive, a swim platform like what is pictured would be the ticket, with a good, deep dive ladder, at least three rings in the water. I plan on one myself, but want it to fold up against the boat.
Getting into and out of a dink is tough, add dive gear and it's real tough.
You of course shuck the gear and man handle it into the dink, then you get into the dink, go back to the boat and hoist the gear aboard.
It doable, but much less hassle if you had a swim platform.
I'm unclear on this bit. As in my experience, once you take off your tanks & BC, getting into & out of a dink from the water's pretty easy. Especially with fins on. You just pull yourself over the tube, with or without an assist from your fins. And if you're having a tough time, then you finish the entry into the dink by rolling in instead of hoisting yourself over the tube/gunwale. Non?

It's either that, or deal with climbing up several vertical feet of ladder on a large vessel. Which takes a good bit of upper body strength, that many don't have. And the difficulty of this gets compounded by the boat's motion, even for men who are fit. Let alone others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Oh, and on my IP 38 it's closer to the water and easier especially if there is any seas to board the dinghy from the side of the boat, and not the stern, three ft seas and the stern is pitching up and down a lot.
I carry the dinghy on davits on the stern of course, but to load tanks and dive gear etc., it's easier to bring it alongside.
And if the mothership is prone to pitching, as noted above, then how is diving from her easierr than from a dink?
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Old 25-10-2016, 18:49   #11
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Re: Happy Medium Between 80s IPs vs. Newer Production Boats?

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Also, I somehow posted this in the multi hull section on accident.
And no one has berated you about your choice of monohulls, because we multihullers are nice, polite and tolerant.
At least, most are. ☺
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Old 25-10-2016, 18:58   #12
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Re: Happy Medium Between 80s IPs vs. Newer Production Boats?

My two cents' worth:

1. If you want to clean your big boat, the swim platform might be okay, but the step method, then dinghy, will work just fine. For going to dive sites, we prefer to leave the mother boat in a safe anchorage and use the RIB for transport. Also, use the RIB for those drift dives through passes.

2. So, to me, you need the rubber ducky, and a good boarding ladder, or step, preferably close to the shrouds, where the motion is least if the anchorage becomes bumpy. As a full time cruiser, there is lots of stuff that you dinghy to your boat -- food, laundry, fuel, and water, dive gear, outboard motor. -- and then raise up. If the freeboard isn't too tall, just a single step will do the trick, as long as one is fit enough to get into the dinghy. Saves expensive s/s and timber work, too.

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Old 26-10-2016, 19:37   #13
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Re: Happy Medium Between 80s IPs vs. Newer Production Boats?

Had a IP38 and had a swim platform built on the back that I could pull up and attach flush to the stern while underway. It worked great and was a huge help in loading and unloading. I'm not a diver so can't attest to working with tanks in that situation.
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Old 26-10-2016, 20:49   #14
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Re: Happy Medium Between 80s IPs vs. Newer Production Boats?

I know this is a little smaller than what you had in mind but sure is a good price for an IP 31. I've noticed this boat's on Craigslist for a while now.

https://fortmyers.craigslist.org/col...828204652.html
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