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Old 23-09-2015, 18:07   #16
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Re: Gunboat International sues Chinese boatyard

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Maybe Boeing will have better luck with their newly announced "finishing" plant for 737s. American workers, not so much.
I would imagine this is another guise to learn the process of building those planes, so they eventually kick the mother company out, and go into production themselves.
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Old 23-09-2015, 18:13   #17
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Re: Gunboat International sues Chinese boatyard

Many boat builders (and other manufacturers) go in earnest looking for cheaper labor to build their products, and a large number of them fall into the pit of China, including a number of automobile builders. I believe when Gunboat first went there they had a big presence of foreign managers, overseers, instructors, etc. But when they decided to open a concurrent plant in NC, they likely had to transfer a lot of that talent to the new NC plant,...and that left the China plant to 'hopefully' continue on with what they had been taught.

Big mistake as China at present will take advantage of all possible schemes for making money,...regardless of deals struck

I worked for an old friend over in Singapore for awhile in the offshore oil and construction business. For the most part the Koreans and the Japanese were the builders and owners of the giant barge/ships that became the prime contractor for many of the offshore jobs. Then they subcontracted out most of the technical operations/constructions of the overall job to western companies that had much more experience in doing the jobs. There were real differences in the manner that this 2 prime contractors conducted business with their subs. I suspect the Chinese are also now entering the field as Prime contractors,....and I do not think I would want to be a sub-contractor under them.

Earning dollars is their primary goal, and how they go about it is secondary in all considerations,..... ruthless, with little regard for peripherals. Actually it sounds a bit like some of our hedge fund managers on Wall Street
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Old 23-09-2015, 22:39   #18
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Re: Gunboat International sues Chinese boatyard

Sailboat building and maintenance is not an major industry in China. It ain't even a minor one. All the rigging, mast, boom, and hardware has to be brought in. From what I read there is not one qualified rigger in the whole country. They have to bring in people from OZ (usually) to set the stick.
On top of that you can't sail your own boat in or out of Xiamen. You have to have a pilot go with you so to test drive that GB or HH is $500 just for him each time. Plus crew. It's on the Noonsite page.
I just can't see China working out as an option for sailboat building.
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Old 23-09-2015, 22:42   #19
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Re: Gunboat International sues Chinese boatyard

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I just can't see China working out as an option for sailboat building.
It could, ....it will just take more time.
And hopefully a change in the 'copy and steal ' attitude.
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Old 23-09-2015, 22:55   #20
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Re: Gunboat International sues Chinese boatyard

This story has been told so many times with Chinese shipyards, of small and large vessels. I've been employed with offshore construction companies for a career where we've (very occasionally) contracted shipbuilding to various Taiwan and Chinese yards over the years and each and every time its been met with significant quality deficits, schedule delays, cost overruns. Even the first lesson of basing our own QC management and inspectors at the yard has found substandard products that runs all the way down the supplier chain to the base supplier of a raw metal or resin, for example. Unfortunately, the best contracts in the world are not going to support you in the laws of China. And suing them, been down that route, will take years and cost more than you may expect. Go in with wide open eyes and significant contingency dollars. Sorry to hear this for Gunboat.
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Old 23-09-2015, 23:17   #21
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Re: Gunboat International sues Chinese boatyard

OMG!

A greedy American company has subcontracted to the lowest bidder and received poor quality. Whodathunkit?

Ya gets what ya pays for.

Shame on Gunboat.
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Old 23-09-2015, 23:21   #22
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Re: Gunboat International sues Chinese boatyard

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OMG!

A greedy American company has subcontracted to the lowest bidder and received poor quality. Whodathunkit?

Ya gets what ya pays for.

Shame on Gunboat.
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Old 24-09-2015, 02:01   #23
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Re: Gunboat International sues Chinese boatyard

I know someone who was part of the team spending weeks as a contractor working to rectify one of the earlier Gunboats built in South Africa, which produced a sub-standard product. Now they have the same problem of poor QC out of China and they blame the Chinese for doing what was inevitable and suing them for it! Mr Gunboat, you are not getting respect from me - what fools.

This is a really expensive boat and it has to be made well, it's implicit in the price and to make it cheaply is cheating and a hypocrisy. If I bought one then I would expect it to be built in a quality boat yard by quality well educated, well trained guys, who had served their time and had pride in their jobs. People who have respect for the product and who are respected by their employers. That is a scene you don't get in China without enormous control and support from the end customer. Even the Taiwanese won't go there to build boats and they know how it works. Gunboat won't get my money no matter how fast the boats are.
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Old 24-09-2015, 07:27   #24
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Re: Gunboat International sues Chinese boatyard

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I know someone who was part of the team spending weeks as a contractor working to rectify one of the earlier Gunboats built in South Africa, which produced a sub-standard product. Now they have the same problem of poor QC out of China and they blame the Chinese for doing what was inevitable and suing them for it!
And that GB55 built in North Carolina seemed to suffer build quality problems that caused it to be abandoned offshore on its maiden voyage.

Maybe eventually they will find a place to build them that can produce a higher standard of quality?

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Old 24-09-2015, 08:08   #25
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Re: Gunboat International sues Chinese boatyard

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And that GB55 built in North Carolina seemed to suffer build quality problems that caused it to be abandoned offshore on its maiden voyage.

Maybe eventually they will find a place to build them that can produce a higher standard of quality?

Mark
That wasn't necessarily a bad quality boat. According to the company a waterspout broke the mast and damaged the boat, leading to its abandonment. North Carolina workers might or might not be better than Chinese, but there is a good probability they will be better in my view. Maybe that's racist. Sorry if it offends.

In any event quality isn't about where it is made. Though that does affect the chance of getting a good job. If you allow the Chinese to ship junk they will. As others have mentioned Apple make good stuff in China as do a huge number of other people. It's just not easy to do it, but it can be done with great care. It's a question of corporate culture and correct decision making.
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Old 24-09-2015, 08:49   #26
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Re: Gunboat International sues Chinese boatyard

The move by Gunboat could be a play on the competition, meaning HH is building similar catamarans as Gunboat with the same designer. China has been building Gunboats for quite some time so this seems to be a timing issue complaining now.
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Old 24-09-2015, 08:59   #27
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Re: Gunboat International sues Chinese boatyard

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The move by Gunboat could be a play on the competition, meaning HH is building similar catamarans as Gunboat with the same designer. China has been building Gunboats for quite some time so this seems to be a timing issue complaining now.
I just checked out that website. It does put a different twist to the whole affair as you suggest. Looks like Gunboat are getting thoroughly shafted. it's just normal business in China. The words 'Chinese copy' come to mind. Oh dear, looks a real mess.
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Old 24-09-2015, 10:18   #28
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Re: Gunboat International sues Chinese boatyard

The ball park base price for a full carbon HH 55 Supercat starts at just under $2.2M but there is a less expensive E Glass version with mini keels and alloy rig called Oceans which starts at $1.48m
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Old 24-09-2015, 10:31   #29
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Re: Gunboat International sues Chinese boatyard

"We have listened, and learned a lot from our customers and produced a catamaran that truly exceeds all expectations"

So you mean... learn a lot from Gunboat guys right??
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Old 24-09-2015, 15:07   #30
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Re: Gunboat International sues Chinese boatyard

Seems some/most of us have difficulty with the DOS principle.
Profitable boat building is difficult anywhere, adhering to spec
in China would surely just push it into the "too hard basket"?
Low wages + wishful thinking ≠ quality
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