GUNBOAT Dismasting

[Southern Star]

Getting back to reality, as many have urged, in spite of the claim by some monohullers that the Gunboat's decks were ripped off, I would urge you to look at the photos in posts 908 and 902: 908 shows an intact boat with a partial cockpit enclosure, not a 'deck', that is likely little stronger than the more typical canvas/plastic cockpit enclosures; 902 shows the same model of boat a year after it was dismasted and abandoned at sea. Yes, the cockpit enclosure is gone, but looking through the dirt, the boat seems to upright, afloat and with decks intact. As I suggested earlier, seems pretty impressive to me, even for a cat.

Brad

[tp12]

Originally Posted by four winds

tp12, I meant no disrespect in my comments. As far as bias goes, unconcious or not,..... well,.... .... could it be that it exists on both "sides" of this dialog?

I don't think anyone is trolling here. But I do think one's bias may make it appear so.

I don't dislike cats (inclusive), some I think I would enjoy owning and others not. Same for monos. I've only owned and enjoyed a Hobie18 that taught myself to sail on years ago. So I don't comment on the cats discussed, just want to learn more about them.

I understand, I wasn't not taking your response as being problematic. I hope I haven't come across as being disrespectful to you; I was trying to address your comments.

Reading your response though, you appear to either not have understood my post to you or you disagree and are trying to restate your case again. So, in that spirit .. I don't believe you've spent enough time looking for the cause here because, by the forum rules, there has been trolling and they (the forum rules) are quite clear about it. In any case, there's probably not much point in us discussing this as you're not going to change my opinion and it seems I'm not going to change yours.

Another forum rule is about playing nicely. I don't think it's playing nicely to regularly denigrate people's boats.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

You know, reading this thread makes me wonder what cat owners do when they file their insurance claims for decks that are ripped off

Name three

[SVNeko]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

You know, reading this thread makes me wonder what cat owners do when they file their insurance claims for decks that are ripped off... blame the cat haters?!

Well, every time my deck gets ripped off I blame dog haters. But my insurance company keeps telling me its because Peter Johnstone is a lousy businessman.

[four winds]

Fair enough. No disrespect taken, thanks for the feedback on my commnets.

Anyway, it's 0215 hours here and I need to throw a banana overboad, secure my buckets, pee over the stern rail, and go sleep feet to bow.

[nigel1]

Folks, can I appeal for some peace on this thread.
Please, please, try and keep to the topic, there is some interesting stuff here, and it would be a shame to close this due to this mono/multi conflict which keeps rearing it's ugly head.
If this thread continues in this vein, it will be closed, life is too short, and there are better things to do than clean up threads.

Thanks folks, back to the discussion.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

You know, reading this thread makes me wonder what cat owners do when they file their insurance claims for decks that are ripped off... blame the cat haters?!

Gee that's one of your more constructive posts.

So do you blame Gunboat owners when your keel falls off?


It's interesting how many "experts" on this forum appear to not know what part of a boat the deck is.


FYI, the deck on the boat in question is actually intact.

[ranchero76]

So, is "halfboat" - the new name of monohull?

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

I think his point was that if his boat was boarded up in the same storm he doesn't think it would have had the decks ripped off and sunk.

The Gunboat didn't have it's deck ripped off and didn't sink either, so it's not much of a point. And the Gunboat appears to have been abandoned with at least one companionway open. It's completely flooded, but it's still afloat.

What was ripped off and this may have been largely due to the mast falling down, was more or less the equivalent of a hard dodger.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by daletournier

I read alot of the forum ( to much time) and yes there is some uneducated if not silly opinions voiced regarding multi hulls, but no more than many other topics! It's got to be asked why you (and others) react so passionately anytime there's any sort of multi hull discussion you don't agree with? I don't think people post out of envy, is it possible you over react? Some just stop being involved in threads because of the sensitivity of some. It's just a forum! Multi hulls are awesome, I'm sure more would have them if not for the money, the world isn't against you or your boat!
Respectfully.
..

You should not only read a lot but also post more. There are some"names" on the forum one associate with knowledgeable people whose opinion deserves respect and to be read and I have associated daletournier with one of them.... and I just noticed now that you have made very few posts and that is quite impressive and says about the quality of your contribution.

Please post more

[tp12]

Originally Posted by four winds

Fair enough. No disrespect taken, thanks for the feedback on my commnets.

Anyway, it's 0215 hours here and I need to throw a banana overboad, secure my buckets, pee over the stern rail, and go sleep feet to bow.

No worries. It's 9:38pm here in Sydney and I've ironed tomorrow's shirt and am kicking back with a dram of the 12 year old Glenfarclas and it's going down a treat. I raise my glass to all those out there doing it while I'm still job bound and racing to feed my sailing habit

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[Polux]

Originally Posted by tp12

The problem with unconscious bias is that it's unconscious. People don't notice what doesn't affect them, generally. Especially when it's a wide bias and considered the 'norm' in a lot of places and sailing circles. They only notice the reaction because it seems out of place. And only when it's pointed out to them AND they're receptive to hearing it will it be noticed.

Regarding labels ... with respect I'd suggest that you haven't really spent a lot of time looking at the cause of these reactions. The same people regularly making disparaging comments, having their comments factually addressed yet continuing to make these comments is trolling and against the forum rules. Your description of the initial statements and how a multi person reacts is inaccurate at best and denigrating at worst. Further, labelling those who get sick of the multi bashing as emotional or sensitive only exacerbates the problem, however well meaning they might be.

This is like the white privileged male telling a woman there's no such thing as gender bias because they don't see it themselves...

Having sailboat ghettos is not the way to diminish biased opinions but a way to increase them due to group mentality and group support.

The negative bias towards cats is not different from the bias the ones that like heavy slow boats have regarding the ones that like fast performance boats and vice versa.

Ghetto mentality increases the bias inside the ghetto regarding what they like and we can see for instance lots of unchallenged misinformation passing there as correct or undisputed, like cats don't sink, cats offer protection when capsized and don't need a life raft, cruising cats don't capsize, cats lose the rig before they capsize, cats capsize as much as monohulls lose keels, globally cats have a similar to monos performance upwind, cruising cats on passage have a better sailing performance than monos, cats on bad weather are less prone to induce seasickness and have a more comfortable motion, globally size by size cats are as seaworthy as monohulls, mono sailors only sail monos because they never tried cats, if not they would be sailing cats and so on.

Anybody that dispute those points, even if on a factual way, on their ghetto is called cat hater and troll at the least. I don't think that contributes for an informed forum and certainly increases overall bias regarding different types of sailboats.

[boatman61]

Seems to me there's Cat fanatics and self confessed Cat haters.. maybe its time the fanatics who find their sensitivities bruised started using the 'Selective Ignore Button' Thunderbird brags about..
If one stops rising to the bait with such obvious malevolence and vitriol maybe they'll get bored and go away.. kinda like fishing.. the trout aint rising.. find another eddy..
There's many ways to skin a Cat.. apart from a dis-masting.. as for Cat owners who'd care to disparage my Mono.. get in the queue behind me..

[TheThunderbird]

If I could ignore multihull related posts, I'd do that. Many issues simply do NOT apply to both cases.

I didn't know what G-boat is/was, and commented only based upon the horrible state of the defunct deck.

My comment would have been the SAME in case of a mono-hull wreck, were it the (unlikely) case of a deck similarly wiped out.....

I recall the criticism of old times sailors, regarding the large windows of deck saloon, the type of Holmen Pye designs and alike, since the mid-50s....approx.

I hold on the belief that a green-house deck/roof like that on G boats is unsafe and de facto prone to collapse under severe conditions. Or blow off. As it did, indeed!

All the rest is sectarian opinions.

Anyone is free to enjoy the 18kn capability (Awa 80-110degrees only, I presume.....) and put his life at danger. Please go

PS I love Trimarans, can I !? :-) possibly more than some multi-hulls " accolades"

[tp12]

Originally Posted by Polux

Having sailboat ghettos is not the way to diminish biased opinions but a way to increase them due to group mentality and group support.

The negative bias towards cats is not different from the bias the ones that like heavy slow boats have regarding the ones that like fast performance boats and vice versa.

Ghetto mentality increases the bias inside the ghetto regarding what they like and we can see for instance lots of unchallenged misinformation passing there as correct or undisputed, like cats don't sink, cats offer protection when capsized and don't need a life raft, cruising cats don't capsize, cats lose the rig before they capsize, cats capsize as much as monohulls lose keels, globally cats have a similar to monos performance upwind, cruising cats on passage have a better sailing performance than monos, cats on bad weather are less prone to induce seasickness and have a more comfortable motion, globally size by size cats are as seaworthy as monohulls, mono sailors only sail monos because they never tried cats, if not they would be sailing cats and so on.

Anybody that dispute those points, even if on a factual way, on their ghetto is called cat hater and troll at the least. I don't think that contributes for an informed forum and certainly increases overall bias regarding different types of sailboats.

Just, wow ... you really do not get it in any way. Self awareness is not an attribute you possess in any way, shape or form.

I try to NEVER put anyone on ignore on any of the forums I visit, and I've been a mod for a number of years on a similar sized forum to this one, because i try to always listen to alternative views but there is simply no reasoning with you at all. You are the first person in over 100,000 posts in multiple forums that I've ever made the decision to put on ignore.

I feel lighter already.

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