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Old 01-02-2015, 11:29   #91
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

One "Law of the Sea " I have always heard is to neversail in the gulfstrem when there are North winds there. I m not sure exactly but I think 200 miles ESE of NoCarolina is in the Gulf Stream----The dickheads just needed to stay inside the stream till weather changed-plus since they left from NC they surely crossed the stream mostly enroute to their dismasting.
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Old 01-02-2015, 11:42   #92
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by georgetheleo View Post
One "Law of the Sea " I have always heard is to neversail in the gulfstrem when there are North winds there.
There were NW winds, as reported. The stream there runs SW to NE and sometimes directly E - I have crossed there numerous times (but not in December thru April) with NW winds without discomfort or incident. The "law" as you call it is to stay away with strong winds opposing the current, as is the general advice where ever currents flow.

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Old 01-02-2015, 12:57   #93
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Georgetheleo,

You're a bit off base in bashing them for sailing in the Gulf Stream. 200 NM SE of Hatteras is well beyond the Stream. Besides, the report said that the damage was caused by 70 knot wind gusts, not waves.
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Old 01-02-2015, 13:18   #94
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by 2Hulls View Post
There were NW winds, as reported. The stream there runs SW to NE and sometimes directly E - I have crossed there numerous times (but not in December thru April) with NW winds without discomfort or incident. The "law" as you call it is to stay away with strong winds opposing the current, as is the general advice where ever currents flow.

2 Hulls Dave

This is certainly misleading and needs to be challenged, if not for accuracy, then to inform others as to it being at the least disingenuous.

The stream is certainly not a direct line flowing SE to NW, but a rambling, constantly changing series of currents and eddies - varying in width and intensity.

The idea of avoiding any weather having a northerly component when crossing the stream is sound advice, particularly in January and in GALE FORCE WINDS!

The fact that you may have cherry-picked a crossing in light northerlies does not re-engineer physics. I can imagine the hammering they were receiving from steep pitched waves. They should not have found themselves in this situation!

As others have said, staying to the west of the stream (until it closes to the coast further south) would have made more sense. Better still, they could have ducked into one of the many harbors of refuge along the coast, much easier to accomplish when you aren't 200 miles from safety.

My take-away from this story is not the stability/suitability of catamarans in ocean passages, but the decision making of the crew. Exactly who was in charge???

At the same time, I wonder about the (Spectra?) rigging, and how it would compare to the tried and true stainless wire.

Who knows? Maybe the lack of commissioning/shake down time and miles are to blame. Sad story. Fortunately no lives lost.

2hulls - you are welcome to disagree
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Old 01-02-2015, 13:32   #95
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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2hulls - you are welcome to disagree
Sheese. Where to begin?

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The stream is certainly not a direct line flowing SE to NW, but a rambling, constantly changing series of currents and eddies - varying in width and intensity.
Huh? Not a direct line flowing SE to NW? Who said that? Maybe you should start over after you have your meds?

The stream most certainly does generally run SW to NE in the general area where they crossed. And they may have already been thru it.

Nothing else you said is worth addressing.

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Old 02-02-2015, 07:54   #96
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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One "Law of the Sea " I have always heard is to neversail in the gulfstrem when there are North winds there. I m not sure exactly but I think 200 miles ESE of NoCarolina is in the Gulf Stream----The dickheads just needed to stay inside the stream till weather changed-plus since they left from NC they surely crossed the stream mostly enroute to their dismasting.
I have a question, first I don`t have alot of time on sailing but alot on power & small fishing rigs so forgive me but I need to ask, even with not much time in sailing rigs I know to reef things in weather, man this seems like some real bonehead was running the show with this,, how is it that people that should know can let this happen? I mean did stearing break & they lose control? Maybe,, all I can say is why bail? no engines? No holes? WTF? Something very fishy here... I smell insurance fraud or bonehead overloaded the rig & engine fail because fuel got shook up & had water in it,, either way I see this as major operator error!!! Should have never been there in first place in that weather.. Experiance,,,, doesn`t make you smarter!
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Old 02-02-2015, 08:09   #97
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

For more insight from a person rescued from the cat Be Good Too last year see Wavetrain
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Old 02-02-2015, 08:10   #98
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

This was the first boat of a new model on basically its first off-shore sail (I think). They were sailing with a triple-reefed main and a storm jib when the mast/rigging failed.

Everybody seems to be looking for a wind-strength problem, but it is more likely just a rigging component flaw that went undetected. It could be a design flaw or oversight on either the component matching, the chainplate build or the mast section - but most likely just a previously undetected bad component.

I VERY much doubt it was "insurance fraud"! Unlikely fouled fuel tanks since the boat is unlikely to have seen more than a tank or two of fuel in its very short life.

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Old 02-02-2015, 08:21   #99
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

No doubt some kind of rigging failure, but they were in the process of abandoning what appears to be a perfectly intact yacht into the life raft when the CG was arriving. There is more to the story as to why, when the boat appears to be fine, and should have had two operating engines. Needless to say they should have had a sea anchor deployed at the minimum.
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Old 02-02-2015, 08:52   #100
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

I can sure understand rig fail,, I didn`t know it was a new boat.. But thats even worse, mismatch parts in the rig or that kind of thing where something fails & down she comes, puts it on the people that should know if a mismatch was done. Even if something in the rig just broke, sometimes s... happens, I can understand that, but still no holes,,why bail? Limp on home under power.. No power? New boat, why? Man fly me out there & I will salvage that puppy!!! In a heartbeat... Where is my little outboard?? A blanket for a sail, I am on my way!!! I am happy they are safe but I think some people have way to much money & just say oh well inc will pay come get me!! I hope they send him a bill for the rescue!! Just for being dumb enough to get in that spot.. Great billing for Gunboat, someone somewhere really screwed up..
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Old 02-02-2015, 08:59   #101
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

I dont think is a failure by a flaw in the rigging or the mast, 70 knts wind gust, that is Hurricane forcé winds in a Split second, triple reefed main and storm jib is just to much canvas for this kind of wind gust....
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Old 02-02-2015, 09:00   #102
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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They didn’t. ➥ RAINMAKER ABANDONED: Gunboat 55 Hull No. 1 Dismasted, Crew Evacuated by Helo

“... According to the Coast Guard's report ( Video Update: Coast Guard hoists 5 from damaged sailboat 200 miles off NC coast ), a 350-foot cargo vessel, Ocean Crescent, was 40 miles from the scene and diverted to pick up the crew, but was unable to come alongside the catamaran. According to Johnstone, Rainmaker collided violently with the ship and was almost sucked into its propeller...”
You're right, I stand corrected... For some reason I thought Mr Johnstone had mentioned initially that they had attempted to come alongside the OCEAN CRESCENT, but in looking back at his original posting, I see it was the opposite...

Still have to wonder how the props got fouled, however... With the feathering props on that boat, seems plausible that they may have been motorsailing at time of the dismasting, no?...

Perhaps they were running them in reverse, in an effort to slow their speed? ;-) That could help explain how such a boat, in that weather, only managed to cover 200 NM downrange from Hatteras over 36 hours, one of the more perplexing things about this whole incident... Hell, I would think a Gunboat 55 running off the wind under bare poles in 35+ knots, might have covered more ground... :-)

I'm kidding, of course, but who knows?

Too bad there wasn't an OBR like Charlie Doane aboard on this one, I'm guessing the details of this incident might take a bit longer to emerge than what happened a year ago aboard the Alpha 42... :-)
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Old 02-02-2015, 09:02   #103
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
They were sailing with a triple-reefed main and a storm jib when the mast/rigging failed.



Mark
Where from did you get this info ? If this is true, I agree that something is wrong with the rigging, either the material or the installation or both..
Gunboat is using the best possible material and people available, but s..ts happen..

As to why they didn't use the engines, someone suggested that they had both props were fouled with the lines as the mast went down. This is quite possible in a standard cat but the only Gunboat I have seen had the props amidship underneath the bridge inwards to be serviced via the escape hatch. Maybe the new moodels are different..

Cheers

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Old 02-02-2015, 09:12   #104
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

We may not find out what really broke. I'm sure the GB folks will try hard to figure out what happened.

As to all the armchair people looking for malfeasance or incompetence just try to imagine if someone important was on a boat that had major damage (lost the rig) and you had many millions of dollars. You might care more about the potential loss of life than a stupid boat. There are lots of things that motivate people and we can't know all of them. Jumping to the conclusion that the motives are nefarious is not warranted IMO.
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Old 02-02-2015, 09:29   #105
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Hall Spars website is down... wtf lol!!!
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