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Old 30-03-2016, 10:31   #991
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Venice was founded in the fifth century, at the collapse of the Roman Empire, by refugees fleeing the advancent of the barbarians in Italy.

The isolation protected them. Trading fish and salt sustained the economy. After continuing cycles of chaos, returning to the mainland repeatedly failed. Eventually trading with nations to the East began the merchant tradition Venice is known for.

Very much enjoyed my visit there. Wandered the streets there for a month and actually began to know how to navigate the maze of streets.
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Old 30-03-2016, 11:28   #992
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Venice was founded in the fifth century, at the collapse of the Roman Empire, by refugees fleeing the advancent of the barbarians in Italy.

The isolation protected them. Trading fish and salt sustained the economy. After continuing cycles of chaos, returning to the mainland repeatedly failed. Eventually trading with nations to the East began the merchant tradition Venice is known for.

Very much enjoyed my visit there. Wandered the streets there for a month and actually began to know how to navigate the maze of streets.
I hope you did not miss the Museo Storico Navale di Venezia, near the Arsenale. I knew that the city had been a major naval power on the med but one needs to see the museum to understand the dimension.

For the ones that don't know it they have a very nice virtual visit. You can navigate on the map on the top right:

http://www.difesa.it/MuseoNavaleVenezia/
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Old 30-03-2016, 11:39   #993
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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I'm just going on observations over time.. its not the first time I've used the 'Elite' expression and likely not the last..
Polux is not alone in this.. there are others from all hulls of life.. just often they're happier to give than receive... without construct.
Anyway.. enough.. I'm off.. back to my Bruce Ghetto..
The way I used the word ghetto and ghetto mentality (as closed group mentality) was this one:

3. an environment ...in which a group has segregated itself for various reasons: female job ghettos; a suburban ghetto for millionaires.
Ghetto - definition of ghetto by The Free Dictionary

The word has several meanings and it seem to me that the meaning I was giving to it was obvious. It seems that not for all
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Old 30-03-2016, 11:53   #994
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Indeed the naval museum was a highlight. Another was a small chapel turned museum displaying scale models of DaVinci's machines complete with original manuscripts displayed adjacent. Also had one of Rodin's "thinkers" on a stairway landing.

Spent several months wandering Europe. Florence, Coppenhagen, Barcelona, Amsterdam, Prague, Cassis, and Venice were some of my favorites.
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Old 30-03-2016, 13:42   #995
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Getting back to reality, as many have urged, in spite of the claim by some monohullers that the Gunboat's decks were ripped off, I would urge you to look at the photos in posts 908 and 902: 908 shows an intact boat with a partial cockpit enclosure, not a 'deck', that is likely little stronger than the more typical canvas/plastic cockpit enclosures; 902 shows the same model of boat a year after it was dismasted and abandoned at sea. Yes, the cockpit enclosure is gone, but looking through the dirt, the boat seems to upright, afloat and with decks intact. As I suggested earlier, seems pretty impressive to me, even for a cat.

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Hi Brad,

Thanks for your on topic post. What I find interesting is the forces that must have been applied to the boat in order for its cabin to come off no matter when or where, while remaining upright is very interesting.

Can we learn anything from this about a cat not flipping even when experiencing incredible forces? Who knows what kind of seas it also survived upright. I can only imagine it bobbing around in the ocean, no rudder and sliding down monster waves at times and yet still staying upright and afloat.

Again I am puzzled and amazed that it has survived right side up and that is not to bash cats at all. It is just an observation and cause for me at least to wonder why?

Chaya
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Old 30-03-2016, 13:46   #996
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

It stayed upright because of reality. The reality that cat's don't flip at every gust of breeze.


The destruction of the cabin roof isn't so much of a mystery to me either. Some people seem to be forgetting: The boat lost it's rig! There's no knowing how much damage the cabin sustained when the rig came down. But it's a near certainty SOME damage would have been done.
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Old 30-03-2016, 14:00   #997
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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It stayed upright because of reality. The reality that cat's don't flip at every gust of breeze.


The destruction of the cabin roof isn't so much of a mystery to me either. Some people seem to be forgetting: The boat lost it's rig! There's no knowing how much damage the cabin sustained when the rig came down. But it's a near certainty SOME damage would have been done.
I understand. I grew up sailing and racing hobby cats. Can't tell you how many times the sails were horizontal in the water. So I have an inbuilt caution regarding this. And yes my logical mind and experience tells me that the large ocean going cats are different but its hard to get the experiences of child hood out of my brain. And I guess that is not a bad thing. It is better to have caution and respect when out on the water than not. For me its like having survived a car accident where I aquaplaned on a freeway in a 1/4 inch of surface water and ended up loosing control of the car and rolling four times. Every time I drive in the rain at freeway speed even with the traffic I am ultra careful. And I don't think that is a bad thing.

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Old 30-03-2016, 14:14   #998
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

I am still wondering how the forces of nature were able to rip the bedded hatch-frames from the decks. I would've assumed that mechanical fasteners would be used as well. The only times I saw hulls like that was after they had been looted clean to the skeleton.
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Old 30-03-2016, 14:31   #999
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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I am still wondering how the forces of nature were able to rip the bedded hatch-frames from the decks. I would've assumed that mechanical fasteners would be used as well. The only times I saw hulls like that was after they had been looted clean to the skeleton.
I guess with both hulls flooded , the water pressure inside of the hulls sloshing around can R.IP a hatch in short order... just my guess
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Old 30-03-2016, 14:42   #1000
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Maybe they were looted.

Surviving after the fact without flipping may have been helped by the lack of weight aloft and the low stance in the water. Seems reasonable. Though I'm sure it could have also survived adrift in its original configuration as well. Given the right circumstances, or given the worst would have flipped either way possibly.

Only certainty is it has enough flotation to remain on the surface in it's present configuration.
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Old 30-03-2016, 14:44   #1001
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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I guess with both hulls flooded , the water pressure inside of the hulls sloshing around can R.IP a hatch in short order... just my guess
Can't be. The pic shows every hatch is gone, including every frame. Clearly the work of humans.
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Old 30-03-2016, 14:54   #1002
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

More likely the work of sticky fingered humans, in my opinion.
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Old 30-03-2016, 15:18   #1003
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Can't be. The pic shows every hatch is gone, including every frame. Clearly the work of humans.
Why bother with a messy hatch frame instead of expensive winches?
No sense.. Are you suggesting someone go inside of a flooded hull to hold bolts and nuts to disconnect a hatch frame?
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Old 30-03-2016, 17:44   #1004
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting



I don't see any winches and the boat was almost completely submerged.
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Old 30-03-2016, 18:36   #1005
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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I don't see any winches and the boat was almost completely submerged.

I guess we have different definitions of almost completely submerged.


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